MBB: Midwest Conference

[hjmphelp]

Yup, AM! The team name was the Cranes.

OFS strikes again!

[TeeDub]

The kid is putting up some great numbers...the only way to score more than him is probably NOT playing for the SYSTEM every night, but playing against it every night.

[systemfan86]

The kid is putting up some great numbers...the only way to score more than him is probably NOT playing for the SYSTEM every night, but playing against it every night.

LOL. 

Probably the most rational statement made on this whole issue. Bravo J.R.!

[hjmphelp]

The Grinnell vs Lawrence games will be broadcast on the web at www.kgrn1410.com tomorrow for anyone who might be interested.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Doesn't this whole things still come down to acceptance of the System as "real basketball."  I mean couldn't we equally say that no one in the MWC could average more than 12 ppg if they played in the Princeton system?  The fact that these are actual games and these guys are scoring actual points should make this discussion moot.  Grotberg went to Grinnell, he plays there.  If he transfers to another school then maybe we could see what he would do.  Right now he is scoring 30ppg.  All of those points count.  If he scores 3000 in his career he will have the record and it will all count.

I'm mad at myself for having even wasted the afternoon discussing this.  Although I do still hold by my stadard of shot attempts to points ratio being the telling factor.  GC takes 100 shots per game, but that's spread over 18 guys.  We need to get the statisticians on here to work it all out and let us know what the numbers actually say.

[hjmphelp]

As much as I would love to stay and participate in this glorious and stimulating discussion, I really must go home and prepare for tonights madcap performance by the Pioneers. At least we know one thing about tonights game in Grinnell-the Pioneers will win no matter what! You can count on it!

Hold down the fort SF86, Hoops Fan and Jordis! Don't let the nuts out of the fruitcake in my absense!

See you tomorrow, Hoops Fan!

[Old Fighting Scot]

from GC's website
12 John Grotberg Fr. 6-2 G Ann Arbor, Mich./Ann Arbor-Pioneer

this looks like Ann-Arbor Pioneer to me, since you all like your facts so much.

so either the GC website is inaccurate or jeffp and system fan are, make your own judgements...

[hjmphelp]

You are wrong, sir. There is only one John Grotberg and he played at Bloomfield Cranbrook no matter what the Pioneer website says. Sorry you are.

[TeeDub]

GC takes 100 shots per game, but that's spread over 18 guys.  We need to get the statisticians on here to work it all out and let us know what the numbers actually say.

I'm one of the last word kind of guys...anyway...in the Knox game, GC took 91 shots, 83 of them came from only 7 players (30 from Grotberg)...so saying that 18 players take the team's shots in a Grinnell game is not quite accurate.  Well, unless you count the remaining 11 players shooting the remaining 8 shots...

[mwc4life]

So what exactly is everyone arguing about?

I was arguing Hoopfans statement that Grotberg could average 30/game somewhere else...that's it.  That fact that very few players in our conference achieve this is evidence that it probably wouldn't happen.  That fact that a D1 transfer-GUARD, with 1 and 2 skill sets only averaged 20/game is evidence.  Also, someone said Paul Nordland could average 20/game? what? Anyways, unless you played against Grinnell's style you really don't know how tough it is to guard..match-up with their players Jeff.  This is no knock on you as an athlete or awesome fan.   The subsitution thing is looked at as being crazy like a line change, but it really helps confuse the defender.  Not only do you have to mentally stay fresh EVERY possession, but you have to fight the physical part...and as we all know it's hard to sometimes to get hacked over and over with no calls made.

[Old Fighting Scot]

You are wrong, sir. There is only one John Grotberg and he played at Bloomfield Cranbrook no matter what the Pioneer website says. Sorry you are.

why would i be sorry if i got the info from your beloved website...  You just get your lil in and try to run with it dont you.  Besides, even if that is the same kid 20.1 in h.s. does not automatically equate to 20+ (definitely not 36) in college at any level D1-3.  Once again, never said he isnt good, just reiterating the point that it is hard for anyone to score 20 in this league, so it is impossible to say that someone scoring in the system can score anywhere.  that is just dumb.  20 being the benchmark thrown out there just b/c there are so few who hit that mark (outside of the system).  to say grotberg is an elite player in this league b/c he gets 36 a night goes against what you pio's have been sayin all season.  i havent heard any of you say he is the best offensive machine in the MWC, if he was getting 20 a night outside of the system then he would be in that category.  i have mostly heard that he is good but has a ways to go, if this is the case even you should be saying that 20 a game as a rookie would be a stretch.  stop playing the victim (i like the system so everyone hates me) and be real.  

[Pat Coleman]

from GC's website
12 John Grotberg Fr. 6-2 G Ann Arbor, Mich./Ann Arbor-Pioneer

this looks like Ann-Arbor Pioneer to me, since you all like your facts so much.

so either the GC website is inaccurate or jeffp and system fan are, make your own judgements...

Those who read the Daily Dose this offseason might remember this specific recruit coming up:

http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/?p=26

John Grotberg, who last played at Bloomfield Hills Cranbrook-Kingswood, will attend Grinnell. According to the Ann Arbor News, Grotberg led the Detroit area in 3-point shooting as a junior but sat out his senior season with an injury.

[TeeDub]

So what exactly is everyone arguing about?

Isn't this banter kinda what this 'posting up' stuff is for?? 

I mean it is just my opinion that I'm allowed to have an opinion...and I defend that we should have a right to defend it...no matter how wrong OFS usually is...

[titan2000]

Jeffp:

Here is another parallel of the Grotberg discussion:

If Times Square had a Saint's Rest, there would be no Starbucks. 

BTW I hate Starbucks--they always try to sell you the NY Times and all that Hara Krishna **** and then they charge you $3 for a cup of black coffee and they print all this communist propaganda on the side of the cup like "The Way I See It".  As far as I'm concerned, for that price, I ought to get a ceramic mug with a cover.

I hope all is well in Grinnell this weekend and may the best team win on Saturday. 

[The Roop]

Yes, absolutely. I went to the one here when it first opened a few years ago, as I had never been to one, and they all sound about the same. There's always two or three behind the counter that are ready to tell you why free range chickens are oppressed. So I just nod and agree, then remind them that many of them still get mechanically separated so we make it up to them in the end.