MBB: Midwest Conference

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Ok, after my first ever trip to Iowa and my first pilgrimage to Darby, I've got quite few thoughts.  First, thanks to Jeffp for the amazing hospitality; I recommend it to everyone.  Saint's Rest, while indeed difficult to locate, is one great coffeehouse.  The frosted cinnamon rolls are incredible and the atmosphere totally makes you forget you're 45 miles outside Des Moines.  Nice little town as well and a beautiful GC campus.  I wish my alma mater had a billion dollars in the bank!

The game was exciting and both teams exceeded expectations.  I was very impressed with the poise of the GC freshman to stick with it, even when it took then thirteen minutes to knock down a three ball.  I think it speaks volumes that they were able to keep the score close even as Lawrence effectively shut down the "system." 

Speaking of the Vikes, just one impressive team; they are very much the #1 squad I expected them to be.  The players sure seem to enjoy playing the part of villain, even though they all seemed to be great guys, sometimes the #1 squad just has to play with a little chip on their shoulders.  Braier is incredible.  He isn't tall, but he is huge and so in control of his body at all times.  All the intagibles of leadership, leading by example on the floor.  He is just so impressive.  Also, that freshman you have is very good, although the stats don't really tell the whole story.  He was as noticible during the game as McGillis or Braier.  Another kid, he didn't get too many minutes, but Megow, the Sophomore was very impressive.  He was making big defensive plays every minute he was in the game.  I think he is going to be key for them in the future.  The LU defense didn't allow any GC shooters to get off clean threes and played real physical, agressive ball.  Even more impressive was how good they were at protecting the ball.  Even the 3rd and 4th forwards coming into the game were able to bring the ball up when need be and didn't seem to be bothered too much by the pressure.  Quality play all around.

For Grinnell, I see a great, great team with a long of young guys.  Grotberg is just insane and Arsenault is very comfortable on the floor.  Both guys drove to the basket and took bad shots when they should have kicked it back out.  They will both get much better as the years move along.  There are also a ton of other freshmen shooters who will come into their own with another year in the system.  Chamberlain is going to be a monster.  He's big and long with soft hands andd good touch around the rim.  If he were a senior in high school, as he should be this year, there is no way a d3 school would have landed him.  I just can't imagine what the limit will be for this team in two years.  GC did well in the absence of any sort of three point accuracy and the big man, Nordlund, in the middle.  I think they could have kept it close if Nordlund had been in there.  They were missing one real big guy.  Also look for Guzman, Bobby Long and Schmidt in the future.  I have to mention Doug Ticus too, who did a very good job of filling in for Nordlund; he can't help it he's not 6'8".

As far as the other issues that come up on the board frequently.  The GC fans are pretty harsh.  Jeffp yelled when it was called for and not too often when it wasn't, but some of the GC fans around us were just brutal on the refs, even when they made a decent call.  I can understand why people hate to ref there.  On the other hand, it seems like the league has just dropped the ball on preparing the refs for system ball.  I would have thought that after 17 years, the league would have come up with a way to educate the refs and train them what to look for, etc, but they were just not ready for what went on.  I thought there was only one horrible call (early in the first half on Arsenault and then an amazingly quick tech on his dad).  The only problems I saw with the refs is total inconsistency.  They would let a handcheck go and then call the same thing on the same player the next time down the court.  GC is involved in more plays, so they had more problems with this, but it certainly didn't seem biased, just incompitent.  Its so detrimental to kids to have the refs be so inconsistent.  You count on the refs letting you know early on what they'll allow and what they won't, but these guys could just not make up their mind the whole game.  The refs didn't even come close to deciding this game though, so don't take this the wrong way.

Just a fantastic experience all around.  The MWC will need to watch out for the GC team in the next couple years, especially if they bring some size in.  Lawrence is so deep and so confident and so poised, it will be tough for anyone to beat them.  Plus, I got to experience this giant casino ad on the drive home which was so bright it made it feel like it was daytime out.  I'll be back as soon as I can do it though and I would recommend the trip to anyone.

[viking68]

viking68-
John Grotberg.

Your man is good, but not ast good OR CONSISTENT GAME TO GAME as JOHN GROTBERG.

I know - I was just having a little fun with you  ... After I saw Kroger's point total (31), I was planning to write that post and was kind of hoping that Grotberg had an off night - but 27 points, despite a poor FG% isn't exactly an off night!

It should be interesting to see Grotberg and Kroger go at each other for the next 4 years. I think Kroger will be a really good ball-player, but gets somewhat forgotten on this team because (as has been mentioned) they are so deep and have other stars (Braier, MacGillis) overshadowing him.

I was at the MC-LU game and I found the same thing Hoops Fan saw at Grinnell - a whole lot of complaining about the refs. It is not confined just to Grinnell!! Do I think the refs missed a few? Absolutely! Do I think it was the deciding factor in the game (women's as well as men's)? No way! I wish fans would spend more time cheering on their team than focused on the refs... I'm sure they could be better across the conference (and everywhere), but I wish we would spend more time discussing the great players and games in the MWC...

[viking68]

BTW - I recognize the irony in spending over half of my last post talking about the refs, when I am arguing that we should stop arguing about the refs...

[viking68]

Oh, yeah, I almost forgot - since no one posts on the women's board, congrats to the Monmouth women for upsetting LU - that was a great win for them.

LU at Ripon for 1st place in the conference on Tuesday - should be a good one.

The men should be careful with Ripon too - despite a sub-par season, Ripon is always tough and judging from recent games has been coming on strong as of late.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Vik,

It is a good point.  I'm used to NE region games, where we get on the refs pretty hard, but I'm just as likely to yell about when they get one right too.  I would never want them to think I was there to make their lives miserable.  I'm there to make the opponents' players lives miserable; I'm there to keep the refs honest.  Truthfully, the GC student section wasn't bad, but it was some individuals sitting among the "adults" and the parents (although none of them were parents I met, so I don't know what their connection was).  By the way, nice to meet you Mr. Grotberg and Mr Schmidt, et al.

[Early]

Congrats to my Ripon boys!!!  Big double win weekend....keep the good flow er ah flowing.

Beating LF by 30 or so in LF.  That is a great turnaround.

Early predictions for Tuesday from anyone?  LU @ RC.  Obviously LU is tough, but @ Ripon and RC happens to be playing much better ball.

[Early]

Oh yeah, jeffp.....yeah I came down with a bad clap....I put some 'tussin on it and cured it right up.  8)

[mwc4life]

"Hinz is the better all around player...better offensivley, just as good a rebounder and now is a pretty good defender. "

D3bbfan~

A little too much beloit coolaide....I'll give you that Hinz is probably a better offensive player then Braier....but other then that, he is no where near the defender (in fact Hinz really isn't that good at all defensively) and Braier is a better rebounder in ever angle of rebounding.  Oh yeah, also, if Braier were on Hinz's teams, I'm willing to bet he would have got them to the conference tourney once!!!  You cannot look at statistics along in this argument.  Braier is the best player on last undefeated team in the land...don't forget that!  LU doesn't have the greatest athletes d3 has seen, it just feeds off its great coaching and leadership.


RC's weekend:

I don't care if Ripon just beat IC and LFC...its the way they beat them.  I was told that somehow the Ripon players just "got it," or clicked as we would call it.  I've been saying for weeks now not to count them out because the talent was there.  Now it seems like McMullen and Wise have taking on a leadership role and the team looks like they care about one another.  This is obviously the best time for Ripon to be peaking....LU is undefeated and what a season saver it would be to be the team to knock LU from the ranks of the unbeaten.  You know Johnson is going to play great at home....should be an awesome game.  I'm going up there for sure...I hear rumblings of an extremely packed house.

-oh yeah, what about now four teams that are either 6-4 or 5-5 fighting for two spots.  Like i said earlier, if Ripon can win on tuesday (which isn't a crazy thought) they are really looking strong to take one of the top 4 seeds. 

[viking68]

Hoops Fan - to be honest, at the Monmouth game it was the "adult" crowd that was the worst with the refs too... The students were upset at a couple of big calls, but they spent most of their time heckling LU and cheering for MC (in that order).

Actually, the women's game was worse. The gym was almost empty and you could hear every little snide comment that was made (many of them being off the mark too).

LU @ Ripon prediction - LU wins both (men and women), but they are both really, really close games. Playing at Ripon is tough, but I think LU is a better team and I can't see them coming out flat with so much on the line and with Ripon being the hated rivals. I do think it will be a lot closer than the records might indicate.

[hjmphelp]

Early-

was it the 'tussin, or was it exposure to fact as opposed to OFS research?

Hoops Fan-

your post is right on the button! I never yelled at any bad calls though!!
The 'adult' ref riders were not parents. Just rabid. Not rabid fans, just rabid!

Thanks for the props on the shop, too BTW! Your are welcome anytime...along with the rest of yuz!

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

No problem Jeff, I really do wish I lived closer, the Rest seems like a great place to hang out and get some work done.

The only thing the GC student section did that could be considered over the line was the good old bullsh*t chant after the technical on Coach A.  However, that whole fifteen second period was just blatantly wrong in terms of the refs and certainly deserved it.  Arsenault the younger took a borderline charge (no call at worst, seeing as how the ball was long gone by the time of contact) and they inexplicably called a defensive foul.  Coach A said about three words and the ref T'd him up.  I have never seen anything like that anywhere before.  Jeffp said that it was the first time that particular ref had worked in Darby so I guess it was nerves and they did fine the rest of the game (not perfect; see the below post, but fine).

All in all a really good time and certainly not the poor picture some posters gave of the confines.  Again, can I state I wish my alma mater was even half that rich or a tenth, even.  Very nice campus.

[Old Fighting Scot]

jeffp,

with a little research (very little just took it off the GC website), GC has lost their last three  grotberg (from who cares...) shot 35-86 (40%) from the floor, but only 12-43 (27%) from three.  Maybe the best freshman in the history of the MWC should take it to the hole a little more often??

BTW- he also has 15 to's in just 56 mins. played.  Seems as if with grotberg it is either feast or famine.  if he's not shooting he's turning it over....

fyi- i didnt have a chance to google what the hometown paper in ann arbor or cranbrook has as stats, i just went to the most logical place as i figured GC (the princeton of the midwest) would have correct info on their site cheers!

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I did get the story this weekend by the way.  Grotberg played at the prep school his junior year, blew out his knee and transferred back to Pioneer, which was close to home and made rehab easier.  So he graduated from Pioneer, even though he played ball at the other school, whose name I forget right now.

Grotberg was the best player on the floor who was not a senior last night (and that goes for either team).  I think, and even talking to him afterwards, he confirmed it, that Lawrence was better than even he realized and they forced him (and all the GC guys) into mistakes they would not ordinarily make.  They were just as impressed by how good the team was as the rest of us who hadn't seen them yet.

Also, the system just leads to more turnovers than normal.  Grotberg also brings the ball up when he's in; he and Arsenault didn't play much (if at all) together, so he is the defacto point guard most of the time.  There were a few dumb passes into traffic and too many wild shots on drives to the basket, but these are things freshmen do.  I would not say this team is ready to dominate the MWC this year, but if they progress as they should, they will be in a position to win the conference in two years.  They are still freshmen doing the job of juniors and seniors and you have to take that into account.  I'm not sure 15 to's in three games is bad for a freshman, especially against two teams that I consider to be among the top 15 in the country.

[systemfan86]

Don't take the bait from OFS, jeffp. It just can't be worth it.

I'm beginning to think "The Roops" standard post on Coach applies to our friend in Cali.

[hjmphelp]

Sorry, SF86- just gotta say:

Grotberg also played against the best defense in the country on Saturday and was double and tripled the whole game (Just excellent defense, I will say again). On Friday he was also doubled and tripled the whole game. He still managed to average 27.33 pts per game...oh wait! Faulty research! I forgot the ft's! add 'em in and low and behold! He averaged 31.66! Against a pretty fair Knox team and #25 Carroll (they better be movin on up) and #3 in the country Larry  (they deserve that rating, too)