MBB: Midwest Conference

[The Roop]

Nut........... Let it go. This issue should have died last week.

Early........ No, that "one guy" could hit it from beyond todays 3 point line so it should still be taught these days.

[Amos Lawrence]

Roop, not everyone has the time to post 1.038 times a day. So if somebody wants to weigh in on something that might be a little out of date, let it fly.

[The Roop]

Maybe I know "Lu_Nut" and am just giving him a hard time. Maybe it's just a coincidental comment. Maybe YOU could be more specific. Please define out of date............... You've obviously missed my essay question because you're being out of date now.

[systemfan86]

Yeah! Who's the jerk who keeps bringing this up!

[Early]

Early........ No, that "one guy" could hit it from beyond todays 3 point line so it should still be taught these days.

I know he would hit it beyond the 3 point line.  I'm just messing around.  However, we are not talking about an NBA player here and definitely not a NBA hall of famer.  We are talking about a good, solid D3 basketball player with loads of potential.  The point was why isn't WISE squaring up to the hoop when he catches the ball?  I guess I just assumed RR34 was talking about catching it on the perimeter and not in the post.

Your point was valid, but unless Paul starts sinking 3 point hook shots, I think he should square up to the hoop when he catches the basketball on the wing.

[The Roop]

When it rains it pours for Beloit. They made a better effort against Carroll, still a loss but an improvement, and now it sounds like Isham will be out for the Clarke Tournament. Hopefully he will return when conference play resumes. They're too shorthanded as it is to miss anybody else.

It's too early to start thinking about next year but if they don't start processing applications what's the point of recruiting. I know of one recruit that already has answers and financial aid offers from two WIAC schools. Yet he applied to Beloit first and hasn't heard a thing. This goes back to the Knapton days and needs to change because people lose interest when they don't hear anything.

They're not adding to their prestige by making qualified applicants wait. LU and Grinnell are probably a little higher in the academic polls than is Beloit and they'll give you an answer right away. They are also picked to finish 1 and 2 in the conference this year. Coincidence ?? I think not. Give your coaches a fair chance like most everybody else does.

[d3bbfan]

The Roop,

be very careful with talk like that. i agree with you, however, for some reason, lesser profile programs have been able to do better at BC as of late. cross country, swimming,  volleyball.  football and basketball cant seem to catch up and baseball has never been a top caliber team.

im very disapointed to hear about this recruit you know. sounds just like many i have known over the yrs. 6'7 quality player waits 6 weeks to hear from BC and gets addmitted in 3 days at UWW...hmm guess where he went and BC was his 1st choice.

this happens way too many times. I do not envy Coach Vraney the postion he's in. BC is always waiting for that one "better" applicant, so they wont give a qualified student/athlete an answer quickly for fear of losing out on a kid with higher score and grades.

[Greek Tragedy]

My point is that the score of the game seems to matter. Had it been closer, then his being in the game for 38 minutes is considered 'more appropriate'. But he doesn't control the margin in that he doesn't control the shooting percentage of NC or the free throw percentage of his own team. Heck, he scored 22 himself; had he not scored at all and it was a 17 point game, we might not be talking as much about it. Had he come out of the game right after breaking the record, we might not be talking as much about it. But it wouldn't have changed the 'planned' nature of the assault on the record book.

Not to beat a dead horse, and I don't even know why I'm arguing since I really don't care...

But, your argument doesn't hold water.

W 137-132 v Eau Claire:  Arseneault, 17 minutes
W 105-102 v Wartburg:  22 minutes
W 116-104 v Waldorf:  19 minutes
L  114-105 v Simpson:  21 minutes

My point is that all those games are a lot closer, yet he didn't play anything close to 38 minutes.  So, his minutes played in that game had nothing to do with the score.  If it was close, he still would've played 38 minutes to get the record...and people still would've complained about it and called it "tainted" for it.

[systemfan86]

...and people still would've complained about it and called it "tainted" for it.

Agreed, but they've been doing that with Grinnell for so long now, it barely registers.

[systemfan86]

Given the open question of sportsmanship in regards to Grinnell, any suggestions on what they are 'suppose to do' in their upcoming game against Cal Tech?

Redlands and Cal Tech play in the same conference and the margin of victory in the games between these teams has been 82 (125-43), 62 (121-59), 21 (109-88), 58 (128-70), 59 (140-81), and 48 (155-107) over the last three years. Cal Tech is not a good team - four wins in the past 5+ years - so what is the right way for Grinnell to play this game? When should Grotberg, Arseneault, and Chamberlain be done? After two or three shifts on the floor? At half? Should they play at all?! God forbid one of them should have a good day; the team and coach will be ripped to shreds on the boards here if they do.

I'm obviously engaging in a bit of hyperbole here, but I'm doing so to make a point. What is a team suppose to do in this situation? Grinnell is a more talented team than Cal Tech and they play a style of ball that is designed to give them a shot against teams more talented than they (Grinnell) are. Problem is, when they play this style against less talented teams, the score and point differential can (and usually is) large. Are they obligated to play two different styles in order to be considered sportsman like?

[schwanman]

My two cents is that you don't press after a certain point and, as I mentioned in a previous post, you treat the last 10 minutes as an opportunity to get your deep reserves into the game. That holds true for any sport ... not just basketball. Your deep reserves would love some playing time, but there are typically only a few games each year when you're ahead or behind enough to give them meaningful minutes. This sounds like it's going to be one of those opportunities. I've seen Grinnell box scores with players getting one or two minutes. This sounds like the game to make those minutes more like 10 or so for those guys.

By the way, these reserves should be looking to score as much as possible and hoisting up 3s, even if the margin is 50 or more. But pressing fullcourt at that point would be a bit much.

If Grinnell sets a record during this game, terrific, but hopefully it comes during the first three quarters and hopefully it just happens, rather than being planned.

[The Roop]

be very careful with talk like that.

That's a little confusing isn't it. Caution me then agree with me. LOL. Not sure what I need to be careful about as I'm not making anything up. Nor am I suggesting that they need two systems. One for athletes and one for non-athletes. Because the lengthy wait effects everybody. When they're obviously a qualified applicant it's foolish to drag it out.

One of moms former students, a non-athlete, is at BC now in his sophomore year I believe.  Straight A's in high school and is actually on a full academic scholarship. However, he almost didn't go because he thought they lost interest it took so long for an answer. Why is there any debate in a situation like that. "Hmmmmmm only 4.0 huh, well I don't know there is an A- here. We'll get back to ya".

The recruit in question is 1 A short of being a 4.0 student so I'd say there's a good chance he'll be getting in. But the longer it takes the greater the chance of other schools developing an interest. One in particular will be after him until the last minute. I didn't always see their coach at the high school games I went to last year but somebody from the school was always there. Coincidently scouting the same person Beloit was at the time.

I think it's great that other "lesser" programs as you say are having success. Don't forget about the mens soccer team, they've had a couple good years now. Football is improving but is still a little short on numbers. Keep in mind it wasn't so long ago they only had 33 players on the team. I'm confident the basketball program will rebound but with the transfers, injuries and abbreviated recruiting period this year they are a bit thin on personnel.

There is no set "cut off" point because it varies year to year depending on the applicant base. The Coaches know who will get in and who won't. So I doubt they are out there looking for people that aren't going to make it. Unfortunately they don't control the time line and the time line is what needs to be addressed. That's my bottom line and I think it's a fair question because they're not only losing athletes. 

[Early]

My two cents is that you don't press after a certain point and, as I mentioned in a previous post, you treat the last 10 minutes as an opportunity to get your deep reserves into the game. That holds true for any sport ... not just basketball. Your deep reserves would love some playing time, but there are typically only a few games each year when you're ahead or behind enough to give them meaningful minutes. This sounds like it's going to be one of those opportunities. I've seen Grinnell box scores with players getting one or two minutes. This sounds like the game to make those minutes more like 10 or so for those guys.

By the way, these reserves should be looking to score as much as possible and hoisting up 3s, even if the margin is 50 or more. But pressing fullcourt at that point would be a bit much.

If Grinnell sets a record during this game, terrific, but hopefully it comes during the first three quarters and hopefully it just happens, rather than being planned.

clap clap clap.  schwanman stand up and take a bow .  clap clap clap.

[d3bbfan]

be very careful with talk like that.

That's a little confusing isn't it. Caution me then agree with me. LOL. Not sure what I need to be careful about as I'm not making anything up.

j/k with ya there The Roop. i just remember you and i taking crap for suggesting that addmisions played a part in the bc struggles is all. didn't want anyone coming down on you again...lol....

but yes i agree with you. why do theyneed to take so long letting a kid know that they've been accepted. makes no sense. they know whether the kid is gonna be accepted or not. why not just let them know. it will take lots of stress off the coaches and the kid and his family too.

[The Roop]

Early, Thank you for an even number of "claps" because my lights stayed on after the last one.