MBB: Midwest Conference

[The Roop]

PennAtlantic doesn't offer it either, so you may wish to consider a road trip.

[SNCOLDAD]

Roopsssssssssssssssssssssss.   Nice to hear from you. 

carrollfan, what did I do?      

scottie, scotties, scotsmeister, the scottie-man, scottie-o-rama.. Just had to do it.

Went to mt 1st SNC basketball game Saturday and I have to say I was very impressed with Knox. Well at least the bus they left town in. I'm sorry. But the women took a terrible beating and then the men's game. That had to be a VERY LONG RIDE HOME that night. 

The game was great except some father yelled out hi to his son across court during dead silence of a free-throw. What could he have been thinking. I am sure my his son's friends were ribbing him all night. 

I think SNC - Carroll is Wednesday right??


Taks care all. See ya Roopsssssssssssssss   

[schwanman]

I can't explain exactly why Ladwig was in the game in the final 9:24. That's the point where a timeout was taken, the lead was 37 -- or 18.5 by "System" math -- and it looks like Hoch exited. But at least nine Carroll reserves saw action during that time, and that's the way the end game is supposed to be handled by a coach with a big lead. So what if they shot threes?

Ladwig was even on the court after it looks like Grotberg and Arseneault had exited. That being said, I still think there is a big difference from how this end game was handled and when Arseneault broke the assist record last year -- somewhere around the 9:24 mark with somewhere around a 37-point lead -- and continued to play long enough to get seven more assists.

That ploy ignited some pretty strong feedback. I think all the Carroll game did was bring up some mild curiosity about keeping a difference-maker like Ladwig on the court when you would think his coach would not want to risk him getting hurt.

[fightingscots13]

Just got word from the MC SID that the GC v. MC game will be webcast tomorrow night, and the GC SID is checking with the conference to see what's going on with the webcast link. 

If you're watching, remember that the game is at 5:00 since it precedes the Iowa Energy game.

[titan2000]

I can't explain exactly why Ladwig was in the game in the final 9:24. That's the point where a timeout was taken, the lead was 37 -- or 18.5 by "System" math -- and it looks like Hoch exited. But at least nine Carroll reserves saw action during that time, and that's the way the end game is supposed to be handled by a coach with a big lead. So what if they shot threes?

Ladwig was even on the court after it looks like Grotberg and Arseneault had exited. That being said, I still think there is a big difference from how this end game was handled and when Arseneault broke the assist record last year -- somewhere around the 9:24 mark with somewhere around a 37-point lead -- and continued to play long enough to get seven more assists.

That ploy ignited some pretty strong feedback. I think all the Carroll game did was bring up some mild curiosity about keeping a difference-maker like Ladwig on the court when you would think his coach would not want to risk him getting hurt.

While Carroll is an excellent team, they are not extremely deep at the guard spot.   Ladwig may have been in because they needed him to be in.  They seem to have a good number of longer shooters and that bronze center guy that my son calls slush head; other than that, its the Ladwig/Hoch show as far as ball handling goes.

[GC_Critic]

And wasn't there a 152-76 Grinnell win over Monmouth a few years ago, in which Grinnell hit a half court 3 for the final tally. Just pretend Ladwig hit a baseline runner as time expired and CU won 84-83. It's the same number of losses either way. C.B.A. rules don't apply to D3.

As a Beloit fan I've been on the short side of these "System" games more than once in recent years. Whether you think it's real basketball or not, the games still count. Scores do get out of hand but it's still only one game at a time.

Win by 1 Friday, lose by 49 Saturday; I'm thinking GC is still happy with a split on this road trip.

Famous quote that I still use with my kids to this day...
If you don't like people playing hard and trying to score... then don't suck... it usually solves that problem.
I watched the game Saturday --  the guys really did suck.
End of Story.

[Greek Tragedy]

Carroll gets into the Top 25 poll and no comment by the "D3Hoops gives no love to the MWC" posters?  chirp, chirp, chirp...ouch.

I'm surprised to see Ladwig in the game that late.  I checked the boxscore and there were a lot of players that were in the game that I had no idea who they were.

As seen in the play-by-play, Grotberg, Arsenault and Long were still in the game, down 45 with 5 minutes to play.  I have no problem with Ladwig in the game then.  However, if any of those players gets hurt, the coaches should be fired. 

Even with the "system" math, Grinnell isn't coming back from that deficit.  If Carroll's coach looks on the floor and sees Grinnell's Big 3 out there, then he has every right to "play the game" with his guys too.  Until Coach A throws up the white flag, it's fair game to "run up the score"...IMO.

[hoops_malone]

132-83 carroll final

BTW, in case anyone cares, CU shot 14 3's in the game; 10 of those came in the 2nd half - after leading by 30 - and 5 of those 10 came in the last 6 minutes of the game. CU never lead by less than 27 in the half.

I happened to watch the game on MCW TV (free plug) and Carroll did shoot quite a few 3's late in the game, but that is probably (not totally sure, just an observation) because Grinnell took off the full court press at around the 8 minute mark.  They fell back into a deep 2-3 zone and they were just asking for Carroll to shoot the 3 ball.  They were basically giving them open looks and Carroll was taking them.

When Grinnell was in their full court press, Carroll was taking the lay-ups.  When Grinnell was sitting in a 2-3 zone and not playing the perimeter, Carroll was taking the open shots.

It was just one of those games that Grinnell was not hitting anything and Carroll was not missing much...   After watching the game, I did not think Carroll looked like they were trying to run up anything against Grinnell.   Grinnell was not doing themselves any favors, because they were still in the "system" shooting (and missing) 3's with 20-25 seconds on the shot clock late in the game.

Bottom line is, Carroll hit nearly 80% of their shots, Grinnell hit 30% of theirs.  Grinnell is actually lucky they dropped into the 2-3 zone and slowed down the game or they may have been beat by 60 on this given day...

It was just one of those days for both teams.  Carroll was on fire and Grinnell could not hit anything.

[systemfan86]

Carroll gets into the Top 25 poll and no comment by the "D3Hoops gives no love to the MWC" posters?  chirp, chirp, chirp...ouch.

I'm surprised to see Ladwig in the game that late.  I checked the boxscore and there were a lot of players that were in the game that I had no idea who they were.

As seen in the play-by-play, Grotberg, Arsenault and Long were still in the game, down 45 with 5 minutes to play.  I have no problem with Ladwig in the game then.  However, if any of those players gets hurt, the coaches should be fired. 

Even with the "system" math, Grinnell isn't coming back from that deficit.  If Carroll's coach looks on the floor and sees Grinnell's Big 3 out there, then he has every right to "play the game" with his guys too.  Until Coach A throws up the white flag, it's fair game to "run up the score"...IMO.

Excellent point(s).

Like I said, I don't have a problem with the score; it happens with the style of play the Grinnell employs. You will have big wins and big losses. My point was that we need to apply the same standards/critiques to Grinnell that we apply to other teams.

If players who don't get as many minutes are in the game late and shooting threes, well, that's because that's the game Grinnell plays and they need to be able to play Grinnell's style of play. Just like what Carroll was doing. If their opponents best player (or players) is/are still on the floor, then Grinnell should be able to play their best players. If a 20 point deficit is only 10, then a 20 point lead is only 10. And "If you don't like people playing hard and trying to score... then don't suck... it usually solves that problem. "

The game I was thinking of was not the Little A assist game; I understand those issues. I have a sense that there was a game where Grinnell won by 40-50 and the haters were out calling Grinnell unsportsmanlike for not letting up. I think Grinnell is often held to an unfair standard re: the 'unwritten' rules.

[titan2000]

And wasn't there a 152-76 Grinnell win over Monmouth a few years ago, in which Grinnell hit a half court 3 for the final tally. Just pretend Ladwig hit a baseline runner as time expired and CU won 84-83. It's the same number of losses either way. C.B.A. rules don't apply to D3.

As a Beloit fan I've been on the short side of these "System" games more than once in recent years. Whether you think it's real basketball or not, the games still count. Scores do get out of hand but it's still only one game at a time.

Win by 1 Friday, lose by 49 Saturday; I'm thinking GC is still happy with a split on this road trip.

Famous quote that I still use with my kids to this day...
If you don't like people playing hard and trying to score... then don't suck... it usually solves that problem.
I watched the game Saturday --  the guys really did suck.
End of Story.

The GC guys sucked on the prior night at Alex as well.  So did the Vikings, especially at the FT line.  The oafs sucked even more.  One to forget.  I'm getting there.   

[The Roop]

The game was great except some father yelled out hi to his son across court during dead silence of a free-throw. What could he have been thinking. I am sure my his son's friends were ribbing him all night. 

Parents will always be parents. I've met several over the years. One in particular, and I will never understand this, complains about tuition all the time but then wants a redshirt year. I doubt tuition is refunded when a redshirt is granted. 

[SNCOLDAD]

A school has a substantial lead. The coach starts clearing the bench. The players going in do not see much playing time. And some of you are saying the coach should tell them not to shoot? Do not do what we practice? Do not press? Do not guard?

You cannot expect that from any player that has worked his butt off in practice and finally gets a chance to play. They deserve the right to try as hard as they can also.

It is like in football. Do not put in the backup offensive team and then ask the quarterback to take a knee until the clock runs out.

[The Roop]

Well since nobody has done it yet...................

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,482825,00.html

When you read through the entire article you kinda get the hint that maybe this game shouldn't have been scheduled in the first place.

[schwanman]

Do shoot ... do guard ... just don't press.

Using Grinnell as the example, shooting quickly in the shot clock with a big lead isn't objectionable. The two objectionable parts for them or any team would be pressing when up 30 late and playing studs when up 30 late.

I have seen Coach A take his foot off the gas before. I am by no means saying he is a chronic offender of these "unwritten rules."

When a team is totally helpless and there is no shot clock as was the case in the 100-0 game in Texas, I would think teams could make 10 passes before shooting or some such concession. That would also be a game where reserves could and should be playing well before halftime. Or, as The Roop says, the game shouldn't be played at all.

[hickory_cornhusker]

Do shoot ... do guard ... just don't press.

Using Grinnell as the example, shooting quickly in the shot clock with a big lead isn't objectionable. The two objectionable parts for them or any team would be pressing when up 30 late and playing studs when up 30 late.

I have seen Coach A take his foot off the gas before. I am by no means saying he is a chronic offender of these "unwritten rules."

When a team is totally helpless and there is no shot clock as was the case in the 100-0 game in Texas, I would think teams could make 10 passes before shooting or some such concession. That would also be a game where reserves could and should be playing well before halftime. Or, as The Roop says, the game shouldn't be played at all.

The team that won only has 8 girls listed on their roster, if that's the case taking out the starters isn't going to drop the level of play too much since two starters have to remain on the floor.