MBB: Midwest Conference

[fightingscots13]

I know, I know, this is the board for men's bb...but since there's talk of players/coaches getting screwed already, just think of the chatter if a player had these stats and didn't get put on the first team:  scoring (1st), rebounding (1st), fg % (7th), steals (4th).  That's what happened on the women's side to MC's T. Hughes...now that's getting screwed.

[thevicar]

I know, I know, this is the board for men's bb...but since there's talk of players/coaches getting screwed already, just think of the chatter if a player had these stats and didn't get put on the first team:  scoring (1st), rebounding (1st), fg % (7th), steals (4th).  That's what happened on the women's side to MC's T. Hughes...now that's getting screwed.

This is ridiculous.  The women's side has TEN first teamers and she wasn't on the list, and there was a DIFFERENT Monmouth on the first team! I mean, maybe she somehow wasn't as big a contributor as her numbers suggest or maybe she had some off-court issues, but this seems simply absurd to me.

[thevicar]

Current Lawrentians: Any idea if WLFM is sending a crew?

[Scrub023]

Now that the conference selections are out, I just want to explain why I think LU got screwed. Ryan Kroeger with POY, great for LU. DePagter sharing the COY, great as well (personally think this should have only gone to DePagter). Ryan Kroeger 1st team, another big bonus. Chris Page only a honorable mention? Doug Kadison not even mentioned? John Dekker not mentioned? They play for the best team in the conference, and both play huge rolls on the LU team. To be honest, they both probably play a bigger role than Apelgren. Kadison set the record this year for most assists in a single season. John Dekker is their 3rd best offensive threat, and usually when he feels good, hes our #1 or #2 scorer. No numbers, just impact, and quite frankly, he probably has a big spot on most teams pregame papers. How does DePagter get his COY with Arsenault? Arsenault doesnt even coach what I consider basketball. I am probably bias, but for DePagter to not get the COY last year ( SHAME!!!) and to have to share it this year (SHAME!!!) is absolutely absurd. And just a question for Grinnell fans. Who do you beleive is a better player, or who is more valuable, Grotberg or Bobby Long? I would think without Long, that team would be in shambles and they have no offensive threat going to the basket.

Heres what I thought should have been the selections.

1st Team

Bobby Long
John Grotberg
John Hoch
Ryan Kroeger
Andy Horton

2nd Team
Tom Katzfey
Wes Ladwig
Scott Gilespie
Mark Gillingham
Chris Page
David Arsenault

Honorable Mention
John Dekker
Nathan Zimmerman
Travis Clark
Doug Kadison
Brian Fleischmann
Add one More: Matt Goedeke

Sounds very reasonable, dont you think?

[larry_u]

Current Lawrentians: Any idea if WLFM is sending a crew?

Highly doubtful since they did everything via MWC TV this year.  I would assume there will be a audio webcast via this site though.  That pod is too damn good not to broadcast.  I'm sure Pat has plans and will let us know sooner rather then later.  I just know I'll be at St.Thomas broadcasting that pod....

[larry_u]

Here are the actual award winners:

MWC PLAYER OF THE YEAR
Ryan Kroeger, Senior, Guard, Lawrence University

CO-MWC COACHES OF THE YEAR
David Arsenault, Grinnell College
Joel Depagter, Lawrence University

FIRST TEAM
Player Pos. Yr. School
Scott Gillespie G So. Ripon College
John Grotberg G Sr. Grinnell College
John Hoch G Jr. Carroll University
Andy Horton C Sr. Beloit College
Ryan Kroeger G Sr. Lawrence University

SECOND TEAM
Player Pos. Yr. School
David Arseneault G Sr. Grinnell College
Brian Fleischmann F Sr. St. Norbert College
Mark Gillingham G Sr. Illinois College
Tom Katzfey C Sr. St. Norbert College
Wes Ladwig G Sr. Carroll University
Bobby Long G Sr. Grinnell College

HONORABLE MENTION
Player Pos. Yr. School
Jayce Apelgren G Sr. Lawrence University
Travis Clark C Fr. Lake Forest College
Matt Goedeke F So. Knox College
Chris Page F Sr. Lawrence University
Nathan Zimmerman F Sr. Carroll University

[larry_u]

And for the triple post....

Dekker not being an HM is pretty surprising, but I can see why they limited to only 3 players per team.  The problem with LU is that they have a good 4 studs, and only 3 can get the nod.  GC could argue Idrissa should be on there too...but tis the rule of 3., and he wasn't going to beat out Grotberg, Long, and Little A

[scottie]

I know, I know, this is the board for men's bb...but since there's talk of players/coaches getting screwed already, just think of the chatter if a player had these stats and didn't get put on the first team:  scoring (1st), rebounding (1st), fg % (7th), steals (4th).  That's what happened on the women's side to MC's T. Hughes...now that's getting screwed.

This is ridiculous.  The women's side has TEN first teamers and she wasn't on the list, and there was a DIFFERENT Monmouth on the first team! I mean, maybe she somehow wasn't as big a contributor as her numbers suggest or maybe she had some off-court issues, but this seems simply absurd to me.

The only off-court issue, I suspect, was that she turned around and got two runner-up finishes  (shot put and weight throw) the following weekend at the Indoor track meet. Wait until she has some time to actually train....  She's probably a academic all-conference student, and I'll spare the "lifetime achievement" sermon...but you get the point.  Bad move by the selection committee.

[systemfan86]

And for the triple post....

Dekker not being an HM is pretty surprising, but I can see why they limited to only 3 players per team.  The problem with LU is that they have a good 4 studs, and only 3 can get the nod.  GC could argue Idrissa should be on there too...but tis the rule of 3., and he wasn't going to beat out Grotberg, Long, and Little A

I'm going to ignore the rookie's rant and address yours Larry_U...

I guess in a year where there is no player head-and-shoulders above the others that it's OK that Kroeger was the POY, but still it has me scratching my head a little. If you're right that LU has '4 good studs', how do you single one out as POY?

I'm not sure I can make a more convincing argument for Grotberg in this specific year, but Grinnell was co-champ of the league, and the guy contributed to his team from his first game as a freshman to his last game as a senior. It's hard to imagine that in all he contributed to his team - career scoring leader, two league championships (one of them shared), and four straight appearances in the league tournament - that he was never the POY in the league. I know it's not a lifetime achievement award, but it still seems like the league under appreciated him and that's a shame. 

[Pat Coleman]

Current Lawrentians: Any idea if WLFM is sending a crew?

Highly doubtful since they did everything via MWC TV this year.  I would assume there will be a audio webcast via this site though.  That pod is too damn good not to broadcast.  I'm sure Pat has plans and will let us know sooner rather then later.  I just know I'll be at St.Thomas broadcasting that pod....

Yes, we'll have D3hoopsNet audio broadcasts from Elmhurst.

[systemfan86]

Now that the conference selections are out, I just want to explain why I think LU got screwed. Ryan Kroeger with POY, great for LU. DePagter sharing the COY, great as well (personally think this should have only gone to DePagter). Ryan Kroeger 1st team, another big bonus. Chris Page only a honorable mention? Doug Kadison not even mentioned? John Dekker not mentioned? They play for the best team in the conference, and both play huge rolls on the LU team. To be honest, they both probably play a bigger role than Apelgren. Kadison set the record this year for most assists in a single season. John Dekker is their 3rd best offensive threat, and usually when he feels good, hes our #1 or #2 scorer. No numbers, just impact, and quite frankly, he probably has a big spot on most teams pregame papers. How does DePagter get his COY with Arsenault? Arsenault doesnt even coach what I consider basketball. I am probably bias, but for DePagter to not get the COY last year ( SHAME!!!) and to have to share it this year (SHAME!!!) is absolutely absurd. And just a question for Grinnell fans. Who do you beleive is a better player, or who is more valuable, Grotberg or Bobby Long? I would think without Long, that team would be in shambles and they have no offensive threat going to the basket.

Heres what I thought should have been the selections.

1st Team

Bobby Long
John Grotberg
John Hoch
Ryan Kroeger
Andy Horton

2nd Team
Tom Katzfey
Wes Ladwig
Scott Gilespie
Mark Gillingham
Chris Page
David Arsenault

Honorable Mention
John Dekker
Nathan Zimmerman
Travis Clark
Doug Kadison
Brian Fleischmann
Add one More: Matt Goedeke

Sounds very reasonable, dont you think?

Here's the problem with your post: it reflects badly on the rest of the LU fans. Your team has had great success and yet this kind of post makes the fans sound like incredible whiners. It's irritating. It's damn near impossible to feel 'sorry' for a team that played so well and is still playing. So don't expect me to.

Get over yourselves. The rest of the league has no interest in kissing your @ss and calling it ice cream. Lawrence didn't invent the game and they haven't perfected it. Your success is less than a decade old. I admire the team and the players, but, damn, I'm getting a little fed up with the whine and cheese from Appleton.

My apologies to the reasonable fans from LU. I had to get that off my chest.

[systemfan86]

And for the triple post....

Dekker not being an HM is pretty surprising, but I can see why they limited to only 3 players per team.  The problem with LU is that they have a good 4 studs, and only 3 can get the nod.  GC could argue Idrissa should be on there too...but tis the rule of 3., and he wasn't going to beat out Grotberg, Long, and Little A

I'm going to ignore the rookie's rant and address yours Larry_U...

I guess in a year where there is no player head-and-shoulders above the others that it's OK that Kroeger was the POY, but still it has me scratching my head a little. If you're right that LU has '4 good studs', how do you single one out as POY?

I'm not sure I can make a more convincing argument for Grotberg in this specific year, but Grinnell was co-champ of the league, and the guy contributed to his team from his first game as a freshman to his last game as a senior. It's hard to imagine that in all he contributed to his team - career scoring leader, two league championships (one of them shared), and four straight appearances in the league tournament - that he was never the POY in the league. I know it's not a lifetime achievement award, but it still seems like the league under appreciated him and that's a shame. 

I forgot to include that I do find it suprising that none of the LU players that were HM were at least second team. Based on the tournament alone, Page could/should have been up there.

[larry_u]

And for the triple post....

Dekker not being an HM is pretty surprising, but I can see why they limited to only 3 players per team.  The problem with LU is that they have a good 4 studs, and only 3 can get the nod.  GC could argue Idrissa should be on there too...but tis the rule of 3., and he wasn't going to beat out Grotberg, Long, and Little A

I'm going to ignore the rookie's rant and address yours Larry_U...

I guess in a year where there is no player head-and-shoulders above the others that it's OK that Kroeger was the POY, but still it has me scratching my head a little. If you're right that LU has '4 good studs', how do you single one out as POY?

I'm not sure I can make a more convincing argument for Grotberg in this specific year, but Grinnell was co-champ of the league, and the guy contributed to his team from his first game as a freshman to his last game as a senior. It's hard to imagine that in all he contributed to his team - career scoring leader, two league championships (one of them shared), and four straight appearances in the league tournament - that he was never the POY in the league. I know it's not a lifetime achievement award, but it still seems like the league under appreciated him and that's a shame. 

Even thought my guy won the award I can see your point.  Grotberg is a special player, and fair or not, I guarantee you he was penalized for playing in the system.  If he had put up Kroger type numbers at any "standard" MWC program he would have won at least one POY, but I can only assume the MWC coaches have a bias towards the system.  Again right or wrong, thats just my hypothesis.  It would be definately interesting if they would release the voting tallies, but they don't.  I'd love to see of Kroeger won handially, or if it was by just one or two votes.

Unfortunately unless someone in that room leaks it, we will never know.

[Scrub023]

Here's the problem with your post: it reflects badly on the rest of the LU fans. Your team has had great success and yet this kind of post makes the fans sound like incredible whiners. It's irritating. It's damn near impossible to feel 'sorry' for a team that played so well and is still playing. So don't expect me to.

Get over yourselves. The rest of the league has no interest in kissing your @ss and calling it ice cream. Lawrence didn't invent the game and they haven't perfected it. Your success is less than a decade old. I admire the team and the players, but, damn, I'm getting a little fed up with the whine and cheese from Appleton.

My apologies to the reasonable fans from LU. I had to get that off my chest.

Here is my  problem with your quote. I can understand being upset about someone wanting more out of an already great season. I dont expect you to feel sorry for the LU team, but i do expect you realize that Kadison and Dekker got ripped on the selection. I come off a little loud, yes, but its only because I want the best for LU players. Whiney? I call it being outspoken. My post may reflect poorly on me and my character, but it does not reflect poorly on other LU fans. Its hard to feel bad for the Grinnell PLAYERS who got 3 seniors on the selections 1st and 2nd team, even though they did not win the tourney, but I do think that its easy to feel bad for the seniors who didnt make it this year OR last year who deserve it more than ever. Sorry for coming off like a "whining" fan, but I just wish the LU seniors got the credit they so rightfully deserved. I just feel like when it comes to the SELECTIONS, LU got ripped a little more than others in these last two years.

[LuPer]

New to the board - longtime MWC fan, though - since the 70s and 80s when I watched the great Ripon-Beloit battles.

Tough call, I think, but I think Long should have been 1st team instead of Hoch or Gillespie, though those 2 were right up there.   Page maybe 2nd team worthy, but the guys ahead of him are too, IMO and I am bias for LU.

Kroeger deserves PoY - watched him lift LU against the Scots at Alexander this year when they were struggling.  Plus, it's ridiculous for a guard to have that good of a shooting percentage and playing great D - to me that puts him over Grotberg.

Now that the conference selections are out, I just want to explain why I think LU got screwed. Ryan Kroeger with POY, great for LU. DePagter sharing the COY, great as well (personally think this should have only gone to DePagter). Ryan Kroeger 1st team, another big bonus. Chris Page only a honorable mention? Doug Kadison not even mentioned? John Dekker not mentioned? They play for the best team in the conference, and both play huge rolls on the LU team. To be honest, they both probably play a bigger role than Apelgren. Kadison set the record this year for most assists in a single season.