MBB: Midwest Conference

[systemfan86]

Even thought my guy won the award I can see your point.  Grotberg is a special player, and fair or not, I guarantee you he was penalized for playing in the system.  If he had put up Kroger type numbers at any "standard" MWC program he would have won at least one POY, but I can only assume the MWC coaches have a bias towards the system.  Again right or wrong, thats just my hypothesis.  It would be definately interesting if they would release the voting tallies, but they don't.  I'd love to see of Kroeger won handially, or if it was by just one or two votes.

Unfortunately unless someone in that room leaks it, we will never know.

I have no doubt that what you're saying is true. And it's fair to think that the fact that Long and Davey A were second team had an impact as well. The voting indicates that the coaches felt that Grotberg's supporting cast was stronger (two second team players) than Kroeger's were (two HM's). So it's not illogical.

Kroeger's had a great couple years, and I'm not really complaining about his selection specifically. His numbers this year were very similar to his numbers last year.

And while I don't doubt there is a bias, it is a bit suprising that amongst the coaches that it would still exist. Grinnell's style of play is no longer new to the teams in the league. You would think it's viewed by the coaches as just another style of play.

And, honestly, if it weren't for LU's success over the last 9 years, Grinnellmight have been the dominant team in the league. Since 00-01, the only team other than Grinnell or Lawrence to win the league has been Norbs, and that was back in 01-02.

The bias puzzles me at this point. But it undoubtedly exists. Grinnell isn't going to go back to a more traditional style and there is no good reason that they should. They been successful with it.

Like I said, it just seems a shame that the league had a player of Grotberg's calliber, and for whatever reason, the coaches (and some fans) don't fully appreciate them because those people dislike a style of play. Weird. 

[systemfan86]

Here's the problem with your post: it reflects badly on the rest of the LU fans. Your team has had great success and yet this kind of post makes the fans sound like incredible whiners. It's irritating. It's damn near impossible to feel 'sorry' for a team that played so well and is still playing. So don't expect me to.

Get over yourselves. The rest of the league has no interest in kissing your @ss and calling it ice cream. Lawrence didn't invent the game and they haven't perfected it. Your success is less than a decade old. I admire the team and the players, but, damn, I'm getting a little fed up with the whine and cheese from Appleton.

My apologies to the reasonable fans from LU. I had to get that off my chest.

Here is my  problem with your quote. I can understand being upset about someone wanting more out of an already great season. I dont expect you to feel sorry for the LU team, but i do expect you realize that Kadison and Dekker got ripped on the selection. I come off a little loud, yes, but its only because I want the best for LU players. Whiney? I call it being outspoken. My post may reflect poorly on me and my character, but it does not reflect poorly on other LU fans. Its hard to feel bad for the Grinnell PLAYERS who got 3 seniors on the selections 1st and 2nd team, even though they did not win the tourney, but I do think that its easy to feel bad for the seniors who didnt make it this year OR last year who deserve it more than ever. Sorry for coming off like a "whining" fan, but I just wish the LU seniors got the credit they so rightfully deserved. I just feel like when it comes to the SELECTIONS, LU got ripped a little more than others in these last two years.

OK, but it's a balance, isn't it? Your team does get recognized with the two time POY who wasn't head-and-shoulders above the crowd. That's not meant to tear him down. As I stated in the post to Larry_u, the advantage Grinnell had was more players in higher positions, but LU still walks away with the POY hardware. Trade off I guess. We're both complaining at some level about a lack of appreciation. 

[Scrub023]

Understood Systemfan. Personally, I wouldnt have guessed Kroeger for POY. But thought it would be between Grotberg and Hoch. Grotberg is a great player, and would be just as great/affective in any other style. Bobby Long is another example of a GC player that could thrive on any other team. It is a shame that the GC style takes alot of their chances away from getting POY, but the styles are so different I dont know how you can compare Long and Grotberg to Kroeger and Hoch.

[scottie]

Boys, boys, boys....  Don't you think that if Grinnell had won the championship game then Grotberg would have been POY?  I do.  Instead Lawrence won, so there you have it.

[System Error]

Kroeger...Can't complain!
What about Kadison now?
Long, second teamer?

[The Roop]

Wisconsin title
Will be the second weekend
LU will prevail

Off to the finals
Lawrence Invitational
Salem Virginia

[systemfan86]

Boys, boys, boys....  Don't you think that if Grinnell had won the championship game then Grotberg would have been POY?  I do.  Instead Lawrence won, so there you have it.

I'm guessing you're right.

And I want to re-re-emphasize that I'm not discounting Kroeger at all. I don't feel that he was undeserving and I can't (and wouldn't) make the argument that Grotberg was clearly more deserving. I guess I'm saying he was equally deserving.

That being the case, I suppose Scottie's explanation makes more sense. It essentially came down to a one game play off, and Kroeger led his team to the win.

[Greek Tragedy]

I'm guessing, in most cases, votes were already in prior to the conf. tourney.  I've been wrong before though.

[titan2000]

And for the triple post....

Dekker not being an HM is pretty surprising, but I can see why they limited to only 3 players per team.  The problem with LU is that they have a good 4 studs, and only 3 can get the nod.  GC could argue Idrissa should be on there too...but tis the rule of 3., and he wasn't going to beat out Grotberg, Long, and Little A

I'm going to ignore the rookie's rant and address yours Larry_U...

I guess in a year where there is no player head-and-shoulders above the others that it's OK that Kroeger was the POY, but still it has me scratching my head a little. If you're right that LU has '4 good studs', how do you single one out as POY?

I'm not sure I can make a more convincing argument for Grotberg in this specific year, but Grinnell was co-champ of the league, and the guy contributed to his team from his first game as a freshman to his last game as a senior. It's hard to imagine that in all he contributed to his team - career scoring leader, two league championships (one of them shared), and four straight appearances in the league tournament - that he was never the POY in the league. I know it's not a lifetime achievement award, but it still seems like the league under appreciated him and that's a shame. 

Kroeger is a complete player. He leads that team.  He plays defense as well as anyone. Always draws the toughest defender and still delivers.  Grotberg too one dimensional.  I agree without Bobby Long Grinnell would be worse off.   

LU has more important stuff to worry about than this. 

Is Dave Arsenault retiring? 

Horton pick is a stats pick, he didn't get them any wins except against Carroll, which was nice.

[The Roop]

D3 Hoops team of the week twice is probably the "stat" that put Horton over the top 

[larry_u]

ONe more little quick blurb on the awards...

Apparently Depagter is now the only person to have won both MWC Player of the year and MWC Coach of the year in this conference's history.

He also is the only coach to win the MWC both times in his first two years.

Congrats to him for setting these milestones so early in what will continue to hopefully be a promising career.

[systemfan86]

Kroeger is a complete player. He leads that team.  He plays defense as well as anyone. Always draws the toughest defender and still delivers.  Grotberg too one dimensional.  I agree without Bobby Long Grinnell would be worse off.   

LU has more important stuff to worry about than this. 

Is Dave Arsenault retiring? 

Horton pick is a stats pick, he didn't get them any wins except against Carroll, which was nice.

So to summerize, Kroeger is complete because of 'unmeasurable' reasons, and the two others on the first team - Grotberg and Horton - are lesser because of measures of your own definition. (?!?) You crack me up T2K. 

Each of these guys had a role on their team and they each did them exceptionally well.

I think you're wrong that Grotberg was one dimensional, if that one dimension was scoring. He did score, but he also contributed steals and blocked shots, and did so in excess of what Kroeger did for LU. Does that mean he was better? Maybe not, but he was a huge factor on Grinnell's defense. He had various roles on the court and he played them all well.

Likewise, Horton contributed in all aspects of the game. Lead his team in minutes played, rebounds, blocks, and scoring. For the season, he averaged a double-double, scored more than Kroeger, and outrebounded Page. He also led the league in blocks. But those are just numbers, right?

Sheesh. 

[I think I owe an apology to Scrub023, he's not the one who makes the rest of the LU fans look bad...]

[larry_u]

Incase anyone wants an LU blast from the past...which I'm pretty sure excludes systemfan as he seems to not be a big fan of LU at the moment 

Found this dinking around on the net....really bored at work

http://www.basketnews.lu/index.php?page=bio&id=511


Great fight in the final of the Coupe de Luxembourg between Nelson Delgado (l., Etzella) and Chris Braier (Musel Pikes

[Put up a #]

I had the pleasure of watching a number of MWC games this year, both in person and on MWCTV 

Two thoughts.
1. Lawrence looked awesome down the stretch. Terrific athletes, well coached. I hope they keep on winning.
2. What the heck would Bobby Long have to do to make player of the week, or first team all conference in the MWC? He was phenomenal. I'll bet there is exactly ONE coach in the conference who wouldn't rather have him on his team than a certain one of the other players who made first team. Lawrence fans can vouch for that. Did you see him at Lawrence? He picked up his Grinnell team and carried them in what turned out to be the win that allowed GC to share the title and to host. Of all the players in the conference this year, I thought Long and Page were the most undervalued.

[systemfan86]

Incase anyone wants an LU blast from the past...which I'm pretty sure excludes systemfan as he seems to not be a big fan of LU at the moment 

Found this dinking around on the net....really bored at work

http://www.basketnews.lu/index.php?page=bio&id=511


Great fight in the final of the Coupe de Luxembourg between Nelson Delgado (l., Etzella) and Chris Braier (Musel Pikes

You got me wrong. I'm a fan of the team. I really like the way they play the game. They were clearly the best team in the league at the end of the year.

It's some of the fans who seem to think that the league starts and ends with LU that I'm not too thrilled with...