MBB: Midwest Conference

[System Error]

Been real impressed with St. Norbert for two years now. They barely lost to Lawrence in the 07-08 semifinals. I believe they could have beaten Carroll in finals. Last year, they were incredible until the last month of the season. They were ranked until an injury to Tom Katzfey. They had been the drivers seat all season, and a loss to Carroll in the 16th game, not only allowed Grinnell to host, but also kept them from a Co MWC title. This year, they are starting off on the right foot. Beating Oshkosh, or any WIAC team for that matter, is impressive. Looking forward to watching them play this season.

Sidenote: Its funny that after an 18-23 performance from three against Silverlake, the shot 0-11 against Oshkosh.

[John Gleich]

Been real impressed with St. Norbert for two years now. They barely lost to Lawrence in the 07-08 semifinals. I believe they could have beaten Carroll in finals. Last year, they were incredible until the last month of the season. They were ranked until an injury to Tom Katzfey. They had been the drivers seat all season, and a loss to Carroll in the 16th game, not only allowed Grinnell to host, but also kept them from a Co MWC title. This year, they are starting off on the right foot. Beating Oshkosh, or any WIAC team for that matter, is impressive. Looking forward to watching them play this season.

Sidenote: Its funny that after an 18-23 performance from three against Silverlake, the shot 0-11 against Oshkosh.

I'm not trying to diminish Norbert's win in any way... I think they're a really good team that would give any WIAC team fits and I see good things happening for them this year.  I mean, I don't care who you're playing, shooting 18/23 is amazing.  Guys can't do that without defense.  But anyway...

While Oshkosh has a great player in Marsh, they are not the #24 team in the country (that probably would be more appropriate for St. Norbert, to be honest!) or the #3 team in the WIAC.  That is probably Whitewater, Platteville, or River Falls (with Point and La Crosse 1 and 2).  I think Oshkosh is probably going to end up #6 or more likely tied with teams that make up the first 6, if that makes sense.  There are just too many other balanced teams with multiple good players that will negate what Marsh can do.

[Greek Tragedy]

Pretty sure shooting 25% isn't gonna do it for Marsh.  He was 4-16 vs. St. Norbert and 5-20 vs. Lawrence.

[Just Bill]

Interesting story on the D3Hoops front page that involves some MWC schools:

http://gazetteonline.com/blogs/diamonds-and-ice/2009/11/18/a-new-conference-for-cornell-coe-and-luther

Thoughts?

[larry_u]

Interesting story on the D3Hoops front page that involves some MWC schools:

http://gazetteonline.com/blogs/diamonds-and-ice/2009/11/18/a-new-conference-for-cornell-coe-and-luther

Thoughts?

I don't see it happening.  I don't think there is anyway the Minnesota schools leave the MIAC, and frankly, if you took the MWC schools and added Coe and Cornell, you would have the old MWC, as they both were in the conference until the 1990's...

CC would be an interesting addition, as I think they are independent currently, however, in this day and age the travel costs would be enormous having one member far enough that everyone would have to fly to, not to mention CC having to fly to every road game as well.

It would means some major wide scale changed in DIII sports in the midwest if it happened affecting the MWC, IIAC, MIAC, and one would have to assume either the CCIW or WIAC as well, as what would happen to St Norbert, Carroll, Illinois College, etc.... Just too much to get done in my opinion.

[The Roop]

I saw that story this morning myself. CC wanted in a couple years ago and we see where that went. BTW I think they are in the SCAC now but didn't look it up. Carleton and Macalester have expressed interest in the MWC as well. It might not be a bad idea to take a look at re-organizing a little bit to improve travel schedules but adding a team from Colorado will never do that.

I don't like the idea of divisional play so I don't want to see a 14 team conference. That would only allow 4 non-conference games if the "New" MWC stuck to the 23 game limit. Football would be a mess as CC doesn't have a team any more and everyone else would need to fill need 4 non-conference games to complete their schedules. Although I imagine they would only play 9 and then have a championship game.

Whatever they do, which will probably be nothing, at least leave 7 teams intact in one conference so they don't lose Pool A bids. Then just form a new one with the teams that want to jump ship. Pool B for a couple years might not be that bad any way.

[Gregory Sager]

CC would be an interesting addition, as I think they are independent currently

No, it isn't. As Roop guessed, Colorado College is now a member of the SCAC.

It would means some major wide scale changed in DIII sports in the midwest if it happened affecting the MWC, IIAC, MIAC, and one would have to assume either the CCIW or WIAC as well, as what would happen to St Norbert, Carroll, Illinois College, etc.... Just too much to get done in my opinion.

Not necessarily. It'd be bad for the IIAC, which would drop down to six schools and have its automatic bids jeopardized in several sports (including men's basketball), but the MIAC could absorb the losses. It'd be reduced to nine schools and would keep intact its automatic bid in its various sponsored sports.

And I don't see why it would have to affect either the CCIW or the WIAC at all. The WIAC is a fixed constituency: It solely consists of branch campuses of the University of Wisconsin, a state school. There are no UW branch campuses, or state schools of any type, in other midwestern D3 leagues, and to my knowledge none of the WIAC schools have ever approached other D3 leagues as a prelude to a switch. They're as securely tied to their niche as are any schools in D3. As far as the CCIW is concerned, the league switching by Luther, Coe, Cornell, Carleton, and/or Macalester would only affect that circuit if it accepted the applications of St. Norbert to join the league and/or Carroll to rejoin the league -- and right now the CCIW's eight current members are disinclined to accept Carroll and/or St. Norbert.

Carleton and Macalester have expressed interest in the MWC as well.

They might create Grinnellesque travel headaches if only one or the other entered the league, but if they both entered the MWC they could be travel partners, which would mean Friday/Saturday basketball road trips to southern Minnesota.

Carleton was a charter member of the MWC when it was founded in 1921.

[fightintitan2006]

Anyone know how ACM membership works...could CC, SNC and IC apply for membership?

Otherwise, I would see IC going to the SLIAC and CC/SNC could try the CCIW again, but the NAC is the likely destination.

[The Roop]

I've been doing some cypherin and here's what the ACM schools need to look at before they seriously consider this imaginary 14 team conference.

1. Divisional play for football is unavoidable.

South: Cornell, Coe, Luther, Grinnell, Knox, Monmouth and Illinois College (for football only)
North: Macalester, St. Olaf, Carleton, Lawrence, Ripon, Beloit and Lake Forest.

IC would take Colorado Colleges place as they don't have a team. IC could then re-join the CCIW for other sports, or, they are a good fit geographically for the SLIAC which doesn't have football any more.

2. It would have to be single round robin competition in all other sports. Exceptions being Hockey and Baseball.

Carroll has been rumored to be interested in re-joining the CCIW, that would take care of them. St. Norbert could join the WIAC, at least for football, and solve some of the scheduling problems that conference is having. Or join as a full member as nothing in the bylaws require a member institution to be a state school. For example Lawrence was a WIAC member for wrestling.

Having said all that, that is why they will do nothing except talk.

[Gregory Sager]

IC could then re-join the CCIW for other sports

Carroll has been rumored to be interested in re-joining the CCIW, that would take care of them.

Again, this presumes that the CCIW is interested in adding MWC defectors, a presumption that is currently unwarranted. There's no party-crashing in intercollegiate athletics; you can't join a league that hasn't invited you to join.

St. Norbert could join the WIAC, at least for football, and solve some of the scheduling problems that conference is having. Or join as a full member as nothing in the bylaws require a member institution to be a state school. For example Lawrence was a WIAC member for wrestling.

That's an interesting possibility. I wonder what the WIAC folks would think about that.

[fightintitan2006]

Carroll has been rumored to be interested in re-joining the CCIW, that would take care of them.

Roop, I read somewhere last year that CU, SNC and another non-MWC school had applied for CCIW membership, but the CCIW ultimately decided not to expand.

Hence, you wonder how that plays in the MWC. Much of your reasoning that the ACM conference wont happen was based on what happens to CU, IC and SNC, but the remaining members may not care especially after they tried to exit.

[The Roop]

Leave Colorado College out and it might work. Then of course you'd have an odd number of teams and you're just asking for trouble.

Joining the NAC would be a huge step down for Carroll and St. Norbert so they need to find another conference(s)

[Gregory Sager]

Joining the NAC would be a huge step down for Carroll and St. Norbert so they need to find another conference(s)

Problem is, they might not have a choice -- unless the rump version of the IIAC was interested in accepting them.

[The Roop]

Nothing wrong with being independent.

[Gregory Sager]

Nothing wrong with being independent.

ADs and presidents seem to view it as the sports equivalent of the bubonic plague. It can make scheduling very difficult in a number of different sports. On the D3 level, Pool B access does not appear to be seen as much of a consolation prize.