MBB: Midwest Conference

[Gregory Sager]

I haven't reviewed every conference (and I'm not going to) but there seems to be lots of one team top heavy situations this year. Therefore a chance for more upsets in conference tournaments. That really doesn't help the CCIW, especially if the ODAC grabs 3 Pool Cs.

Why wouldn't it help the CCIW? It makes just as much sense for Carthage -- which will almost certainly be a Pool C shoo-in, as the Red Men are currently 14-3 in regional play -- to lose at home in the CCIW tournament as it would for St. Norbert to lose at home in the MWC tournament.

[The Roop]

That's a little too complicated to get into until all the Pool As are determined. My bracket isn't likely to happen anyway so just keep Randolph Macon closer to home and put a 2nd CCIW team in in their place; makes no difference to me. I made it up based on the season ending today and a little guess work.

[schwanman]

Forgive the "off-topic" post on women's basketball, but a great game last night in Monmouth ... Scots 101, Foresters 96 in OT. Best game I've seen in person in quite a while. Freshman sharpshooter Colleen Forrest swished a running three-pointer to force OT and complete a 16-point rally as the Scots kept their playoffs alive.

[pgkevin]

I haven't reviewed every conference (and I'm not going to) but there seems to be lots of one team top heavy situations this year. Therefore a chance for more upsets in conference tournaments. That really doesn't help the CCIW, especially if the ODAC grabs 3 Pool Cs.

Why wouldn't it help the CCIW? It makes just as much sense for Carthage -- which will almost certainly be a Pool C shoo-in, as the Red Men are currently 14-3 in regional play -- to lose at home in the CCIW tournament as it would for St. Norbert to lose at home in the MWC tournament.

I think this is way over simplifying the two situations.  Carthage does not have a team in their conference who has won 11 of their last 12, including beating them on their home court.  Lake Forest has done just that, so I think equal senses for Carthage and St. Norberts losing is not a correct assumption.

[Gregory Sager]

I haven't reviewed every conference (and I'm not going to) but there seems to be lots of one team top heavy situations this year. Therefore a chance for more upsets in conference tournaments. That really doesn't help the CCIW, especially if the ODAC grabs 3 Pool Cs.

Why wouldn't it help the CCIW? It makes just as much sense for Carthage -- which will almost certainly be a Pool C shoo-in, as the Red Men are currently 14-3 in regional play -- to lose at home in the CCIW tournament as it would for St. Norbert to lose at home in the MWC tournament.

I think this is way over simplifying the two situations.  Carthage does not have a team in their conference who has won 11 of their last 12, including beating them on their home court.  Lake Forest has done just that, so I think equal senses for Carthage and St. Norberts losing is not a correct assumption.

The Foresters' winning eleven of their last twelve games is irrelevant. Come conference tournament time, everything changes. There are no weak teams, and in a league like the MWC, every team except for St. Norbert (why do people constantly put an 's' on the end of SNC's name, anyway?) will be playing for its life.

As I said, Carthage would seem to be just as likely to lose while hosting the CCIW tourney as St. Norbert would be to lose while hosting the MWC tourney.

[The Roop]

With a 75-61 loss to Beloit and Carrolls 87-80 win over Ripon, Lawrence will not be defending their title this year.

On an unrelated note, when did "and one" become a noun ?? I've heard several announce crews use it as such and it needs to be stopped before it reaches the pandemic stage. "So and so goes to the line for the and one............" No they don't, they go to the line for the bonus. Enough already. 

[System Error]

I know they have won more conference championships recently than any other team, but, it is a little weird to see a team go from winning the conference to not making the conference tournament the following year. Although they have won the conference three times in the past five years, the two of the years were followed by no spot in the tournament. Weird.

[System Error]

A few other things I've noticed:

1) Grinnell is leading the nation in scoring with 94 points a game. Lowest total and only total under 100 still Coach A instituted the system 20 years ago.

2) Im excited for Beloit. I realize they still aren't "there" yet, but, they have made drastic improvements and have a great shot next year to make the tournament. Their best players are all Sophomores right now.

3) I feel like next year Ripon and STN are locks again for the tournament. There will be a few teams fighting for the final two spots. LU, BC, LFC and IC and probably GC after this down year. I don't believe CU will be anywhere close without Hoch who has personal put the team on his back this year.

4) I am still intrigued to see how good of a recruiter JoJo is, as most of his success, especially the last two seasons, has come from Tharp's guys. Another thing that bothers me is watching him terrorize referees and get away with it. I realize he was an excellent player himself, but, does that give him the right (at least right away) to get on officials the way he does.

5) Knox is a good two and three man away from being a competitive team. Goedeke has been out sadly. Weatherbee has yet to be the consistent contributor we have seen flashes of. Although he is still a SO, i believe, maybe, he would be better as a 6th man. Having two more shooters would open up the floor for the decent big men they have right now.

[pgkevin]

I haven't reviewed every conference (and I'm not going to) but there seems to be lots of one team top heavy situations this year. Therefore a chance for more upsets in conference tournaments. That really doesn't help the CCIW, especially if the ODAC grabs 3 Pool Cs.

Why wouldn't it help the CCIW? It makes just as much sense for Carthage -- which will almost certainly be a Pool C shoo-in, as the Red Men are currently 14-3 in regional play -- to lose at home in the CCIW tournament as it would for St. Norbert to lose at home in the MWC tournament.

I think this is way over simplifying the two situations.  Carthage does not have a team in their conference who has won 11 of their last 12, including beating them on their home court.  Lake Forest has done just that, so I think equal senses for Carthage and St. Norberts losing is not a correct assumption.

The Foresters' winning eleven of their last twelve games is irrelevant. Come conference tournament time, everything changes. There are no weak teams, and in a league like the MWC, every team except for St. Norbert (why do people constantly put an 's' on the end of SNC's name, anyway?) will be playing for its life.

As I said, Carthage would seem to be just as likely to lose while hosting the CCIW tourney as St. Norbert would be to lose while hosting the MWC tourney.

There are no weak teams, correct, but I was arguing that there is potentially a stronger team.  Those 11 of 12 wins have mostly occurred against the top half of the conference.  A win against Carroll, Ripon, Lawrence, St. Norbert, and Illinois College all were included in that stretch run.  And the fact that they are hotter than most teams does not get cancelled out by the conference tournament, they still are going to be that same team that won 11 out of 12.

Lastly, the whole playing for their life argument strengthens the Roop's claim of Lake Forest over Norb's because you never know how a team is going to react when they don't have that extra incentive.

[The Roop]

My "imaginary bracket" back on page 738 was not intended to exclude Carthage from the dance. Rather I have them winning the CCIW Tournament and hosting a regional/pod as a Pool A team. Go back and look. I merely said that I don't see the CCIW getting 2 teams in this year. With a  thrown in so that people wouldn't take it too seriously.

In subsequent posts I mentioned that there are several "run away" conferences in which the leader is likely to get in regardless of conference tournament results. I put 2 MWC teams in to illustrate that point. St. Norbert is in, either way, but if they lose that takes away a Pool C from somebody else.

On a side note, it will never be a true National Championship until Beloit and North Park are in the tournament but on opposite sides of the bracket.

[Gregory Sager]

There are no weak teams, correct, but I was arguing that there is potentially a stronger team.  Those 11 of 12 wins have mostly occurred against the top half of the conference.  A win against Carroll, Ripon, Lawrence, St. Norbert, and Illinois College all were included in that stretch run.  And the fact that they are hotter than most teams does not get cancelled out by the conference tournament, they still are going to be that same team that won 11 out of 12.

I'd like to see more consensus regarding your statement that Lake Forest is potentially a stronger team than St. Norbert. Is that what the rest of the regulars here think? I'm asking that in all honesty, because I've seen Lake Forest and by no means did the Foresters look anything like a MWC kingpin. And, in the interest of full disclosure, I haven't seen SNC this season.

My "imaginary bracket" back on page 738 was not intended to exclude Carthage from the dance. Rather I have them winning the CCIW Tournament and hosting a regional/pod as a Pool A team. Go back and look. I merely said that I don't see the CCIW getting 2 teams in this year. With a  thrown in so that people wouldn't take it too seriously.

There's no reason not to take it seriously, since it's a valid assertion. The CCIW is really down by its standards this season, and the only team besides Carthage that appears to have even a remote shot at a Pool C berth is Illinois Wesleyan.

In subsequent posts I mentioned that there are several "run away" conferences in which the leader is likely to get in regardless of conference tournament results. I put 2 MWC teams in to illustrate that point. St. Norbert is in, either way, but if they lose that takes away a Pool C from somebody else.

Agreed. I just immediately became suspicious when the conference that lost that final Pool C bid turned out to be the CCIW.

On a side note, it will never be a true National Championship until Beloit and North Park are in the tournament but on opposite sides of the bracket.

[knock on wood] From your typing fingers to God's ears.

[The Roop]

Lake Forest filled out my imaginary bracket faster than Northwestern (MN) did with a possible Pool B.

FYI........ Both won @St. Norbert this year. 

[The Roop]

So who's going to the tournaments(s) this weekend and where are the pre-game/post game festivities ??

[Put up a #]

Has anyone seen St Norbert play in the last month? Last season, they had kind of a nose dive at the end. Does anyone see that happening again? I'm trying to understand whether their 2-2 record in the last 4 games is indicative of anything. Or was coach trying new combinations, resting people, etc.

On another point, I saw Grinnell play this weekend and they handled Monmouth easily. In fact, I never saw Grinnell lose this year (7-0), including victories over 2 playoff teams, Carroll and Lake Forest. I am very encouraged for next season. They have some nice young players. It looked like the first years finally got the speed of the college game, and at times understood the system better. Nitz looked strong with the ball, and moved it up court quickly. I saw good things from Valdez; if he works hard off sesaon, he can be a player in this league. Ney can contribute, Chalupa seems to overachieve and hit the clutch shot. Skelly will improve his consistency. And, I'd like to see a full season from a healthy Griffin Lentsch. But man, the press has to improve. With some kind of reasonable recruiting year, I can see Grinnell back in the playoffs next year.

[PC]

Anyone from Larence want to trade their Mac in to get a PC back?

Greg -- on SNC vs Lake Forest, I would go with Lake Forest right now, they seem to have the hot hand.  And I think that like the CCIW, the MWC is down this year.  Overall it might be better, but the top is not as good.  Ultimately I think this is good for the conference because the bottom teams are no longer 0-3 wins for the season and will give conference and non-conference opponents a game...  I could be wrong on this we will have to wait and see how the MWC rep does come tourney time, but i don't see a performance like Lawrence of a few years ago.

System Error -- as you well know JoJo worked the refs pretty hard as a player, you can't expect that to change as a coach.