MBB: Midwest Conference

[The Roop]

Gorilla: 87,000+ here at New Roop City Arena. JeffP with a steel chair. WOW. He just nailed the Roopster and guest referee Scottie never saw it.
Jesse: Get him Maverick, cover him

1 2 No

Gorilla: Roopster back on his feet now. Into the ropes goes Maverick. It's the Roop-a-loop. This one should be over.
Jesse: Referee Scottie isn't counting
Gorilla: Here comes alternate referee TitanQ to make the count.

1 2 3

Jesse: Roop won it. I don't believe it.
Gorilla: Warren County obviously upset about this result but Roop retains the Intercontinental Title.

[OBC]

I've been thinking about this, and as tough as Lawrence's schedule is this last month, they are one team in the best position to take the conference should St Norbert falter. Yes, it's a brutal stretch with every game but one against playoff contenders, but if they can somehow suck it up and win out, who knows what might happen.

I still think they will miss the playoffs. At least as far as that's concerned their destiny is in their own hands.

[MizzouBall44]

First time poster guys.  I enjoy reading up on what you all have to say.

I have a question that I figured some of you would be knowledgable enough to answer.

A high school coach of mine is thinking about going the route of the system.  He has a good amount of high quality guards, and virtually no post presence coming back next year.  He coaches in Missouri's largest class at a large high school, but not much talent inside coming through, unless someone moves in. 

Anyway he has talked about starting to teach the kids this spring about how to come off of screens, working on presses, traps, conditioning.  He said he would probably sub 5 guys likely every 35-50 seconds.  He has been looking at Coach Arsenault's stuff and has a good grasp on everything. 


Anyway the question is how effective can the system be at the high school level? 

What is the time frame a coach should expect in which to see positive results?

What are the pitfalls of going to the system? 

Can the system be mixed with the style Missouri plays, or do you have to embrace the system 100% to be effective?

Thanks in advance for all of your feedback.  Feel free to post here or message me, or send me an email at MizzouBall44@hotmail.com if you have any more questions. 

[Pat Coleman]

Welcome to the board, although I suspect you will not get much of what you're looking for here. Traditionally you'll get much more System-bashing than legitimate and knowledgeable discussion of X's and O's. Have you tried the System email/discussion group on Yahoo?

[John Gleich]

First time poster guys.  I enjoy reading up on what you all have to say.

I have a question that I figured some of you would be knowledgable enough to answer.

A high school coach of mine is thinking about going the route of the system.  He has a good amount of high quality guards, and virtually no post presence coming back next year.  He coaches in Missouri's largest class at a large high school, but not much talent inside coming through, unless someone moves in. 

Anyway he has talked about starting to teach the kids this spring about how to come off of screens, working on presses, traps, conditioning.  He said he would probably sub 5 guys likely every 35-50 seconds.  He has been looking at Coach Arsenault's stuff and has a good grasp on everything. 


Anyway the question is how effective can the system be at the high school level? 

What is the time frame a coach should expect in which to see positive results?

What are the pitfalls of going to the system? 

Can the system be mixed with the style Missouri plays, or do you have to embrace the system 100% to be effective?

Thanks in advance for all of your feedback.  Feel free to post here or message me, or send me an email at MizzouBall44@hotmail.com if you have any more questions. 

Pat's advice is great... the only other thing I would add would be to contact Coach A about it.  He obviously is really busy this time of year, but I think there's a (relatively small) network of schools who run the system that he may be able to point you to.

I did a simple search on Grinnell's website on 'the system basketball' and came up with three results:

http://web.grinnell.edu/sandb/archives/volume_120/number_17/sports/article1.html

http://web.grinnell.edu/sandb/archives/volume_118/number_9/sports/basketball.html

http://www.grinnell.edu/athletics/mbasketball/runandgun2010

The third one may be the most useful... it talks about a national run and gun clinic that was held back in October.... I'm not sure if it is an annual thing but it might be!

[pgkevin]

Lake Forest @ Monmouth has been cancelled due to the snow

[The Roop]

Welcome to the board, although I suspect you will not get much of what you're looking for here. Traditionally you'll get much more System-bashing than legitimate and knowledgeable discussion of X's and O's. Have you tried the System email/discussion group on Yahoo?

The true purpose of the system is to let your son run things so you can talk to Roop during the game and get advice. I've seen it happen.

[OBC]

Roop understands the beauty, if not the purpose, of The System.

[The Roop]

There's a purpose to it ?? Hmmm, must have missed that one. Always nice to talk to Coach Arsenault though.

[jeffdc]

Anyway the question is how effective can the system be at the high school level? 

What is the time frame a coach should expect in which to see positive results?

What are the pitfalls of going to the system? 

Can the system be mixed with the style Missouri plays, or do you have to embrace the system 100% to be effective?

Thanks in advance for all of your feedback.  Feel free to post here or message me, or send me an email at MizzouBall44@hotmail.com if you have any more questions. 

I'm pretty sure there is a System-specific site that Coach A runs for coaches. You could try contacting him directly. I know there are high schools doing the System and enjoying varying degrees of success.

[jeffdc]

Is the GC/KC game still on tonight, or has it been cancelled by Snowmageddon?

[jeffdc]

Is the GC/KC game still on tonight, or has it been cancelled by Snowmageddon?

Just checked the MWC site - Knox game is postponed to 2/14. No 3s tonight....

[OBC]

As long as the Grinnell System has been around, it's always nice to hear of someone who is just discovering it and has an interest.

MizzouBall44, the questions you ask can take hours to answer, if they can be answered at all. I'll give you some brief highlights as I see them.

First, there are literally hundred of teams running the Grinnell System, high school, collegiate and international. Coach A. communicates all over the world with system coaches as his time permits. Coach Bob Belf runs an e-mail/chat on the system. Mr. Belf is a system coach at the Juco level in Michigan. There are many dedicated coaches using the system.

Second, the system isn't necessarily a "little man's" game. The mindset that "I have no bigs, I'll run the system" misses some of the finer points. Grinnell's conference championship teams have always had quality, all-conference level big men and often tall wing players. Mike Hochman, Paul Nordlund and Keith Chamberlain were all 6'8". Brands, Diekman, S. Nordlund, Malinowski, Ticus were all 6'4" to 6'5." Sure, there were great guards like Steve Wood, Dave Arseneault, Bobby Long and John Grotberg. The point is that the most successful teams had size, too. An intimidator on the back of the press, tall wings to close out traps in the backcourt and a quick player with a long wingspan at the interceptor spot will be most effective.

To win, you MUST force turnovers and you MUST offensive rebound.

In my opinion, The System is most effective at the DIII level. High School games are shorter, with more breaks, and you are less likely to wear out your opponent (a key element for success). Division 1 has too many stoppages of play with media timeouts, etc.

Pitfalls? At the high school level the biggest will be the parents and boosters. Everybody thinks his kid is a D1 prospect and it will be hard to explain why he's playing 14 minutes a game, especially the first couple years while people learn what the system is all about. Suffice it to say Grinnell has had players lead the nation in scoring while averaging 20 minutes in a 40 minute game. The players must buy in to the system. Watch a Grinnell game and you will see the 15th, 16th or 17th best player on the roster make plays that make a difference in the game. Maybe an intercepted pass, or an assist, or maybe even a 3 point basket. It can work. In most collegiate programs the 15th player never sees the floor.

It's interesting, it's fun, the players here love it. The crowds love it. It's no wonder that Grinnell is almost always the biggest draw of the season for the rest of the conference when the Pioneers are on the road.

[upnorth]

MizzouBall:  As a coach, I would say that to embrace the system, it almost always has to be 100%.  Quite a few teams press and run like Missouri, but the system is a whole different level. 

The biggest assumption to the system working is how fast shots go up.  Coach A has stated all stats are based on a shot being taken every 12 seconds of the game.  This is the pace he feels necessary for conditioning to take part, and for the rest of the statistical measures he uses to be effective.

The number one way to ensure quick shots is to sometimes concede lay-ups--"If you can get the ball past half-court, you can score."  As a coach, your friend would have to ask himself if he can stand watching a team shoot 20 uncontested lay-ups a game, and if he can, will the parents and school board have a fit?   I like my teams to play as fast as they can, but I can't commit to the system; I am more like Missouri where they contest everything, but conceed nothing.

Another team your friend could study is VMI--they are the child of a Grinnell-Missouri hook-up.

[OBC]

UpNorth has a good point. To win with the system you MUST CREATE TURNOVERS. Grinnell players are drilled to take chances for a steal. These chances often result in no steal, but a layup or dunk by the opposition.

For example, a number of years ago Grinnell played in New Roop City (inside joke) against a good Beloit team. At the half, Beloit had shot around 86% from the field, many of them dunks. Yet Grinnell led the game because of turnovers, 3 for 2 basket trades and offensive rebounding. The System makes your opponent play out of his comfort zone vis a vis pace of play.

When it works, wow it's fun. But it can backfire, too. When your team is playing a half step slow, or injuries alter the rotations, things can look bad.

If you are going System, you have to go All Out.