MBB: Midwest Conference

[frodotwo]

Here's the link to the Platteville box: http://www.uwplatt.edu/athletics/basketball/mens/livestats/xhome.htm

Their TEAM played all 17 players on the roster, 15 of them scored. No starter on their TEAM played more than 18 minutes, for the game the starters averaged less than 13 minutes played. The starters on this TEAM took 40% of the shots in the game No player on their TEAM took more than 9 shots. Their entire TEAM took 70 shots.

As for GrInnell, Jack Taylor can say I took 108 shots, almost 80% of my teams total. I took 71 3-pt shots, almost 90% of my teams total.  I played team defense, hustling the entire court to h elp my teammates.  GrInnell certainly helped prove the old adage about this being a team sport.  No I in TEAM ?

What am I supposed to be looking at? The fact that UW-P scored 49 in the first half and were up by 39 at halftime, yet still came out and scored 56 (MORE!!!) in the 2nd half?

Both teams were up by 39 points at halftime.  In the 2nd half UW-P outscored their opponent by 46, in the 2nd half Grinnell outscored their opponent by 36.

For the mathematically challenged, UW-P humiliated their opponent by an additional 10 points in the 2nd half of their game than Grinnell did. 

You're right, that's way better because it wasn't one kid running up the score it was lots of kids running up the score.


I don't have any connection to Grinnell and like I said previously I think it was excessive, I just take exception to the moral police that decide who to go after and who gets a pass.

Point I tried to make is that the 3rd and 4th stringers on the TEAM were playing a TEAM concept, where everyone is involved and participates in that  philosophy, not one where everyone gets one person the ball every time so "I" (starter) can shoot and "I" can set a record. My team mates passed up open layins on rebounds so "I" could shoot more 3's. It makes a mockery of the game when your sole reason for playing is so that one player can set an individual record

[OxyBob]

Or Puget for that matter when they were playing a modified version of the system.

UPS was not a traveling freak show. The Loggers trapped and pressed all over the floor. They played relentless defense. They scored a lot of points off turnovers. They didn't chuck up threes and give up uncontested layups. It was a pleasure to watch UPS play.

That said, I still remember Amir Mazerei going off for 57 against Oxy.

OxyBob

[madzillagd]

Point I tried to make is that the 3rd and 4th stringers on the TEAM were playing a TEAM concept, where everyone is involved and participates in that  philosophy, not one where everyone gets one person the ball every time so "I" (starter) can shoot and "I" can set a record. My team mates passed up open layins on rebounds so "I" could shoot more 3's. It makes a mockery of the game when your sole reason for playing is so that one player can set an individual record

Understood, but I'd have to disagree with you on that.  This was a team accomplishment.  From the interviews that I've heard, the team decided pregame that they were going to try and get Jack some shots because he had not done particularly well in the first two contests.  Team Goal #1:  Get Jack shots = Accomplished.   At halftime, they looked at the stats and realized Jack had something special going so they chose to go for it.  Team Goal #2:  Get Jack as many points as possible = Accomplished. 

The stats are logged under the individual but this was a team accomplishment regardless of whether outsiders recognize that or not.  Jack did not get 108 rebounds, take it down and shoot it.  The entire team focused on getting him the ball.  They executed a team plan, might have been a misguided plan, but it was still a team plan. 

[woosterbooster]

Listening to the Grinnell apologists is akin to listening to the Republicans try to explain why Romney lost the election.  Neither group gets it, and they never will.  Would I trust anyone on the Grinnell coaching staff, any of their players, or anyone else who is defending this debacle with a position of importance in business or government?  Not on your life, not based on this event and their reaction to it.  Shame on Grinnell for pulling a Morningside High School.  It stunk the first time, and it still stinks. 

[Titan Q]

From the interviews that I've heard, the team decided pregame that they were going to try and get Jack some shots because he had not done particularly well in the first two contests.  Team Goal #1:  Get Jack shots = Accomplished.   At halftime, they looked at the stats and realized Jack had something special going so they chose to go for it.  Team Goal #2:  Get Jack as many points as possible = Accomplished. 

I have heard some of those same interviews.  Like this one...

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/67739/how-do-you-score-138-points


Quite frankly, I don't believe the "let's get Jack out of his slump by getting him some shots" thing.  I'm real confident they went into the game trying the break an individual scoring record.

The first week of November last year I was at a business meeting with a Grinnell, IA resident.  After realizing we had a mutual interest in Division III basketball, he told me that at a recent town appearance (Rotary Club or something like that), Dave Arsenault told fans that in Grinnell's first game of 2011-12 they were going to try to break the D3 single-game scoring game.  On November 19, 2011 they did just that -- with Griffin Lentsch scoring 89 vs Principia.

In the Deadspin article linked above, they quote a former Grinnell player who they say was involved in one of the past attempts to secure an individual record:

"The strategy was to use a full court press after a made basket, with the caveat that [the player seeking the record] would not cross into the defensive side of the court. So, after our opponents broke our press, we were essentially playing four-on-five, which enabled the other team to take quicker shots and fall into our game plan."

35 seconds into the broadcast pregame last night, this from play-by-play guy Rob (didn't catch the last name):

"A few pertinent records for those watching tonight, most points ever in a D3 basketball game was set last year by our own senior shooting guard Griffin Lentsch, 89 points versus Principia.  Tonight that record is going to be attempted, possibly to be broken, by another Grinnell member - not Griffin Lentsch, new transfer sophomore Jack Taylor."

http://client.stretchinternet.com/client/grinnell.portal?mode=link&eventId=79617&broadcastType=video#


In that ESPN interview link I posted above, the interviewer asks Jack Taylor, "Was this the game plan?  Cause I'm looking at the boxscore and no one else on your team took more than 6 shots.  You took 108."

Taylor responded, "We played in a tournament last weekend and I hadn't shot the ball very well, so coming into the game tonight it was definitely a focus of our team to try to get me going offensively a little bit before we get into conference play.  And I started hitting my shots and we just sort of road the wave"

A more direct answer probably would have been, "Yes, we went into this game trying to set an individual scoring record, just like we did last year.  That is why I barely crossed the halfcourt line all night."

The whole "get Jack some shots early"/"realize at halftime something special is going on" explanation seems misleading to me.

[(509)Rat]

Or Puget for that matter when they were playing a modified version of the system.

UPS was not a traveling freak show. The Loggers trapped and pressed all over the floor. They played relentless defense. They scored a lot of points off turnovers. They didn't chuck up threes and give up uncontested layups. It was a pleasure to watch UPS play.

That said, I still remember Amir Mazerei going off for 57 against Oxy.

OxyBob

What oxybob said. You clearly never saw UPS play if you are trying to compare them to Grinnell. For starters, UPS was actually good. Deep playoff run-good. Nobody was cherry picking and the only way they were going to give up an uncontested layup is if you beat the initial trap and then all of the rotations as guys dropped back towards the basket to play this thing we call defense.

[John Gleich]

Or Puget for that matter when they were playing a modified version of the system.

UPS was not a traveling freak show. The Loggers trapped and pressed all over the floor. They played relentless defense. They scored a lot of points off turnovers. They didn't chuck up threes and give up uncontested layups. It was a pleasure to watch UPS play.

That said, I still remember Amir Mazerei going off for 57 against Oxy.

OxyBob

I agree with that. UPS used sound basketball principles across the boad... they just did it in an up-tempo style with great court awareness and spacing. Yes, they took their share of 3's, but they didn't pass up inside shots or drives when they were available and when they got offensive rebounds, they put them back up.

[jeffdc]

For starters, UPS was actually good.

You may not like Grinnell. You may not like the system. (Ok, I know you don't.) But you can't argue with results. GC has been dominant in the MWC since the System started. I suspect that most of the hoo-haw that rises up after each GC victory or record has its roots in this GC success.

Cool. We agree to disagree. But the one thing you can't say about GC is that it isn't good. Because records don't lie. GC is good.

[larry_u]

Point I tried to make is that the 3rd and 4th stringers on the TEAM were playing a TEAM concept, where everyone is involved and participates in that  philosophy, not one where everyone gets one person the ball every time so "I" (starter) can shoot and "I" can set a record. My team mates passed up open layins on rebounds so "I" could shoot more 3's. It makes a mockery of the game when your sole reason for playing is so that one player can set an individual record

Understood, but I'd have to disagree with you on that.  This was a team accomplishment.  From the interviews that I've heard, the team decided pregame that they were going to try and get Jack some shots because he had not done particularly well in the first two contests.  Team Goal #1:  Get Jack shots = Accomplished.   At halftime, they looked at the stats and realized Jack had something special going so they chose to go for it.  Team Goal #2:  Get Jack as many points as possible = Accomplished. 

The stats are logged under the individual but this was a team accomplishment regardless of whether outsiders recognize that or not.  Jack did not get 108 rebounds, take it down and shoot it.  The entire team focused on getting him the ball.  They executed a team plan, might have been a misguided plan, but it was still a team plan.

According to Lensch, the previous record holder, the idea was all the coaches who told them this is what was going to happen.  Got any new excuses?

"According to Lentsch, players began receiving emails from the coaching staff this past weekend that they would try to break the scoring record in the next game. They hashed out the game plan during Monday's practice, and players quickly agreed to help Taylor chase the all-time scoring mark."

http://www.foxsportswisconsin.com/11/21/12/The-real-question-How-do-you-allow-138-p/landing.html?blockID=823903&feedID=5059

[larry_u]

The whole "get Jack some shots early"/"realize at halftime something special is going on" explanation seems misleading to me.

That's because it was a blatent lie. 

[badgerwarhawk]

It may or may not be a "lie" because we don't know that the person stating it would have inside information to know otherwise for a fact.  It is however a blatent rationalization of what happened.

FWIW, I know almost nothing of Grinnell's success in the MWC.  I've only seen them three times.  Once a few years ago when they scored a 130 some points but gave up 150 some to Beloit, another time when the WARHAWKS drilled them in Williams Center by a score I don't recall and once on ESPN when I can't even recall if they won or lost.  So that can't possibly be a reason for my "hoo-haw" reaction to this incident.  My 'hoo-haw" is that this was a farce and perhaps some of the poorest sportsmanship that I know of.   But, hey, you can say a Grinnell player holds the all-time scoring record.  That and a dollar will get you coffee at McDonalds. 

[jeffdc]

'Blatant'. If you're going to talk about GC, please don't misspell.

The whole "get Jack some shots early"/"realize at halftime something special is going on" explanation seems misleading to me.

That's because it was a blatent lie.

[sac]

Well it got people talking about Grinnell basketball

[badgerwarhawk]

Spelling check, hell of a comeback there jeff. LMAO

[jeffdc]

Best quote from the quite good FoxNews article:

"Will Faith Baptist finally stop scheduling Grinnell?

"We'll definitely think about it," Fincham said. "That's all I'll say."