MBB: Midwest Conference

[Mr. Ypsi]

What are the odds that Coach A or Little Coach A has already placed a call to Champion Baptist to get them on the 2015 schedule?  Letting Southern University have all of the fun wouldn't be the Grinnell way.   

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/91811/for-one-night-southern-plays-the-shark

Why not?  They may not want to bother with the scoring record again so soon (and Little A has the assists record), but phony records in blocks or steals are still out there!

I have no problem with team records for Grinnell, but the NCAA should affix an asterisk to all individual records.  They were engineered against 'tomato cans', and are therefore meaningless.

[jeffp]

Yawn.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Yawn.

Since you are a die-hard supporter, I understand your 'Yawn'.  But can you deny that the individual records have been artificially engineered records against deliberately chosen lousy teams?  (Both Jack Taylor's and David Arsenault's records were on VERY abnormal box scores, and BOTH were against teams that would finish last in EVERY d3 conference.)  Unlike many on this thread, I an NOT opposed to The System.  If it helps win the conference, more power to you.  I AM opposed when it is abrogated to seek an individual record against a pathetic team you hired to be a foil.  (And if you deny it was abrogated for Jack and David, you are a liar.)

[jeffp]

There is ONE solution. One that is related to your mistaken assumption that Grinnell pays low skill opponents to play them SOLEY so they can get individual records. We've discussed it before; no one wants to play Grinnell because of their style of play. It doesn't provide learning opportunities for opposing teams...or so the story goes. And now I hear from some of you that teams won't schedule Grinnell because they are not sportsmanlike and they don't want to be a part of it.
There is ONE solution, one I'm surprised no one has jumped on. Why don't the central states top D3 teams LINE UP...drum roll please...To Teach Grinnell A Lesson! Spank 'em hard. Let 'em know what for. Whether you want to believe it or not, Grinnell would PREFER tougher competition and would welcome challenges from better non conference teams. There are any number of teams from Illinois, Wisconsin and Minnesota who fit that bill. BRING 'EM ON!

[bballer1280]

The truth is that most, if not all, single game individual records occur against inferior talented opponents.  Solid opponents are never part of single game individual basketball records.  The entire argument about whether or not Grinnell College's men's basketball team should be scoffed at, ridiculed, fill in ______ the blank really has become a circular argument where no person's opinion will ultimiately be deemed to be the "correct" argument.  Move on is my response.

[scottie]

Yeah, I say "move on" as well!  Who re-opened this can of worms, anyway?  Show yourself!!  (Oops, nevermind!)   

[John Gleich]

The truth is that most, if not all, single game individual records occur against inferior talented opponents.  Solid opponents are never part of single game individual basketball records.  The entire argument about whether or not Grinnell College's men's basketball team should be scoffed at, ridiculed, fill in ______ the blank really has become a circular argument where no person's opinion will ultimiately be deemed to be the "correct" argument.  Move on is my response.

I disagree. The UWSP single game scoring record of 40 points was set (and then tied a few weeks later) by Josh Iserloth in 01-02 against two conference opponents, UW River Falls and UW Whitewater. The UWW game went into OT.  It was tied again this past week out in Las Vegas against Whitman by Trevor Hass, in another game that went to OT. (Interestingly, Hass scored 40 in 35 1/2 minutes despite playing the full 45... he didn't score after about the 4:40 mark in the 2nd half).

NOW we can move on.

[AppletonRocks]

There is ONE solution. One that is related to your mistaken assumption that Grinnell pays low skill opponents to play them SOLEY so they can get individual records. We've discussed it before; no one wants to play Grinnell because of their style of play. It doesn't provide learning opportunities for opposing teams...or so the story goes. And now I hear from some of you that teams won't schedule Grinnell because they are not sportsmanlike and they don't want to be a part of it.
There is ONE solution, one I'm surprised no one has jumped on. Why don't the central states top D3 teams LINE UP...drum roll please...To Teach Grinnell A Lesson! Spank 'em hard. Let 'em know what for. Whether you want to believe it or not, Grinnell would PREFER tougher competition and would welcome challenges from better non conference teams. There are any number of teams from Illinois, Wisconsin and Minnesota who fit that bill. BRING 'EM ON!

Lawrence has destroyed Grinnell many times.  Trying to save fuel and save gas from trips over there, thanks but no thanks. 

[jeffp]

Oh, Appleton....How I wish you would pay attention. I'm talking about non-con games (yeah, I know YOU know) and the 40 or so teams from the Midwest and Western regions of D3 that are in close enough proximity to GC to schedule them. But you do (sorta) bring up a point. NONE of the MWC teams seem to be afraid to take on GC with various strategies for winning, and not a team in the conference has...um...escaped...without winning games. If close by non cons would even consider a home and home two game two year contract with GC, no one should have to worry about anything more than just preparing for one so called bizzare game a year for two years running...adding up to only two "meaningless" games with GC in about 20 years - or something like that. So, how about it folks? Step right up and give it a crack. A once in a lifetime chance to humble the Bastards of D3!

[jeffp]

BTW, over the last 10 years the regular season record between GC and LU is 9-8 with GC holding the advantage. It is 9-9 counting tourney games. GC has won 7 of the last 8 regular season match ups.
Things have changed a bit in the last 5 years, eh?

[scottie]

Isn't scheduling like dancing - taking two to tango?  I mean, which Midwestern powerhouse(s) has Mount Grinnell (sorry The Roop) actually tried to schedule?  If the Pioneers simply can't get any desirable takers, I would be curious if anyone would care to "leak" a list of scaredy-cats that have refused a home/home invitation.

Or, could it be that a powerhouse (like Whitewater, for example) views a "W" vs. Grinnell as a lesser-caliber win in the grand scheme of things?

Sincerely,

scottie - the newest "All-American"   

[bballer1280]

The truth is that most, if not all, single game individual records occur against inferior talented opponents.  Solid opponents are never part of single game individual basketball records.  The entire argument about whether or not Grinnell College's men's basketball team should be scoffed at, ridiculed, fill in ______ the blank really has become a circular argument where no person's opinion will ultimiately be deemed to be the "correct" argument.  Move on is my response.

I disagree. The UWSP single game scoring record of 40 points was set (and then tied a few weeks later) by Josh Iserloth in 01-02 against two conference opponents, UW River Falls and UW Whitewater. The UWW game went into OT.  It was tied again this past week out in Las Vegas against Whitman by Trevor Hass, in another game that went to OT. (Interestingly, Hass scored 40 in 35 1/2 minutes despite playing the full 45... he didn't score after about the 4:40 mark in the 2nd half).

NOW we can move on.

Good point.  It does happen where single game records occur against good teams.  I won't attempt to deny that because you are absolutely correct.  As you noted, I mispoke about single game records when I said, "Solid opponents are never part of single game individiual basketball records."  However, I still hold to my opinion that "most single game individual basketball records occur against inferior opponents."

[jeffp]

Ya know, I'd like to see that list too, Scottie. I'm certainly not privilege to it. I'd also like to know if GC may have given up asking, if other D3 teams have given up asking GC, and I'd like to know when the last time some teams were asked. Also, as you so astutely observed, the Tango requires TWO participants, so I'd like to know who is responsible for what invites to play...keeping in mind that a number of opposing coaches in past years have NOT been reticent to say they refuse to play GC.

And yes, I'll bet that some teams hold to your "Whitewater Option" as well. Interesting to note that the 2009 Whitewater Tourney had a mediocre Grinnell squad matched up against both Whitewater and Aurora...both of which stomped all over GC. That was the same year that GC faced a strong NAIA William Penn, IIAC's Buena Vista,  and Wheaton...all big GC losses and all on the road single game contracts. Over recent years Wartburg has been far and away the most willing to play GC, both in their own tourneys and in home and home rivalries. Simpson is a distant second in willingness to schedule GC.

I don't think I've ever suggested that teams were "scaredy cats", only that many teams are unwilling to play GC - with the two most recent known excuses being those mentioned in an earlier post on page 871.

[AppletonRocks]

Oh, Appleton....How I wish you would pay attention. I'm talking about non-con games (yeah, I know YOU know) and the 40 or so teams from the Midwest and Western regions of D3 that are in close enough proximity to GC to schedule them. But you do (sorta) bring up a point. NONE of the MWC teams seem to be afraid to take on GC with various strategies for winning, and not a team in the conference has...um...escaped...without winning games. If close by non cons would even consider a home and home two game two year contract with GC, no one should have to worry about anything more than just preparing for one so called bizzare game a year for two years running...adding up to only two "meaningless" games with GC in about 20 years - or something like that. So, how about it folks? Step right up and give it a crack. A once in a lifetime chance to humble the Bastards of D3!

I don't know any people who pound themselves on their craniums with a pick axe.  D3 coaches are no different.

[jeffp]

Cute analogy, AppletonRocks. GC certainly has put the pickaxe to a few coaches heads...and others have enough talent and enough talented players to accept the challenge. If a coach can't coach and doesn't like their inability to coach challenged, I'm thinking the "pickaxe" comment would be aprapos.