MBB: Midwest Conference

[titan2000]

Interesting.  My observation on Shepler--and I only saw him at Alex for 3 years--is that he was a bit of a choker in the LU games.  He got stupid fouls, seemed to be irritated as the game wore on by the constantly defensive LU, and generally hurt more than helped the Pioneers.  Just my observation from 4 or 5 games including the MWC tourney games.  

I expect them to be better without him.  

[The Roop]

I know what you mean there, Shep did have a temper that lowered his IQ at times. There's a few others like that too. Not sure that they are better without him though. Unfortunately Beloit has a few that need to calm down at times and it has cost them. It does make for a very interesting match up when the two play each other however.

[fightintitan2006]

I agree with some of what you said Titan, but where I think they miss him is the running game. He is bigger and more athletic than Toshner and got a lot of easy baskets on the feeds underneath from Drury and Johnson when they ran (not to mention easy putbacks).  Without a break finisher like him, I see the running game stalling a lot more this season and the Pios being forced to set up the offense and I think they are more effective running and gunning.

Roop, I'm not sure if this a RoopImind trick or not, but I agree with you about LU's 14-2 record being unrealistic, just hours after posting it. The league champ likely has 3 or 4 losses this year.

I also meant to post last night that I believe there will be five or six worthy contenders next year....anyone know if there has been any talk to expand the MWC tourney to 6 teams or what needs to happen to do so?

[Greek Tragedy]

I'm thinking the MWC will a lot tighter this year.  The top teams in LU and Carroll seemed to have lost a lot of production.  I'm guessing the conference champ has 3 or maybe even 4 losses this year.  I think Ripon will have a bounce back year, so if you take LU or Carroll, they split with each other (if they play each other twice) and then possibly split with Ripon and get at least upset once against another conference opponent.

When looking at NCAA tourney bids, you not only have to look at the conference schedule, but who they play outside of those games.  LU has Point, Oshkosh, two games at the Concordia (WI) tourney, Carthage and then Ursinus College and Allegheny College (though I know nothing of these two teams).  Though LU has swept Oshkosh the last 4 years or whatever, that's traditionally been a tough game.  LU probably still has bad feelings towards Point, so that will be a great game as well.

Carroll has just as a demanding, if not more, schedule that LU.  They also play Point, Oshkosh and Carthage, along with their annual tilt with Whitewater, as well as a trip out to Colorado College.

Ripon plays at the Platteville Tip-Off tourney, Point and La Crosse.  They also head to the South Padre Island tourney.

With the close proximity of the WIAC teams to the "northern" MWC teams, they are guaranteed a tough nonconference schedule.  The MWC, however, has done pretty well against their traditionally strong WIAC counterparts.  I think it's good that the WIAC and MWC have a solid basketball relationship because there are some good games that come out of it each year (LU/Oshkosh, Whitewater/Carroll etc)

Also, the new "in-region" rules help all of these MWC/WIAC games become "in-region" and count when the NCAA makes their tourney decisions.

[scottie]

JeffP - Did you go to the game today?  If so, please feel free to comment on the pigskin post patterns...

[d3bbfan]

The Roop,

I got your message to me but I dont have enought posts to reply back. I havent been around the school since early in the summer. I'll give a freind a call and let him know what you said. You can also email the coach yourself as well. Im sure he appreciate what you said.

[The Roop]

I also meant to post last night that I believe there will be five or six worthy contenders next year....anyone know if there has been any talk to expand the MWC tourney to 6 teams or what needs to happen to do so?

It probably hasn't been talked about, which is unfortunate yet justified in the short term. Historically the conference has been a little top heavy so expanding would only create more games that have predetermined outcomes. If the MWC gets to a point where there are 5 or 6 legitimate contenders every year then I think they have no choice; probably not there yet however.

Any expansion would make it a 3 day event and it would present logistical problems for a host in a smaller community. So do you play all games at one host site or go campus to campus until the semifinals or final ?

LOL. No minds tricks about 14-2 being unrealistic. Please remember that several, myself included, were expecting 12-4 to win the conference last year and look what happened.

d3bbfan: email sent.

[Greek Tragedy]

It probably hasn't been talked about, which is unfortunate yet justified in the short term. Historically the conference has been a little top heavy so expanding would only create more games that have predetermined outcomes. If the MWC gets to a point where there are 5 or 6 legitimate contenders every year then I think they have no choice; probably not there yet however.

Any expansion would make it a 3 day event and it would present logistical problems for a host in a smaller community. So do you play all games at one host site or go campus to campus until the semifinals or final ?

IMO, and you are a lot more familiar with the MWC than I am, I'll agree with your second part, but not the first. 

Do you think when they created the conference tournament that the league was already top-heavy?  When did they create the tourament?  Anyway, if you want to argue the first part, using the current method, it's basically already pre-determined.  16-0 Lawrence vs. 9-7 Knox and 14-2 Carroll vs. 10-6 Grinnell! lol.  If the league tourney went to a 6-team format, usually the top two seeds would get byes and you'd have a much more balanced first round of 10-6 Grinnell vs. 6-10 Ripon and 9-7 Knox vs. 7-9 Beloit. 

I think it's all about logistics for the one host school and potential travel costs if the tournament was expanded.  It's well-known that the MWC schools never fill their allowed 25-game schedule (because of costs?) and this would only add to that, right?  We know that D3 conferences don't create conference tournaments to make money.

As for top-heavy, anything can happen.  There was a year in the WIAC when the #8 team beat the #1 team by 49 points and went on to the final to lose.  I have a feeling schools that are usually in those #5-#8 spots would like an expansion to say, "hey, we want a chance" but I don't anticipate it happening.  Personally, I'd rather have the WIAC go to a format like the MWC...having the top seeded team host a four-team tourney.

[diehardfan]

I think it's all about logistics for the one host school and potential travel costs if the tournament was expanded.  It's well-known that the MWC schools never fill their allowed 25-game schedule (because of costs?) and this would only add to that, right?  We know that D3 conferences don't create conference tournaments to make money.

I do think it's about logistics, but I doubt it's cost. I'm guessing it has a lot more to do with academics and time away from the classroom. A very large portion of the MWC schools are pretty serious academic schools.

[The Roop]

As much as I'd like to see it expanded I'm not going to hold my breath. April is right, cost wouldn't really be a concern as much academics would. However, one possibility might be to play Friday-Sunday instead of Thursday-Saturday. Set the start time early enough on Sunday so that everybody could get back for class on Monday.

Maybe play at 6&8 on Friday, 4&6 on Saturday then 2 on Sunday. Or whatever schedule would allow for gym clearing activites between games. LOL.

[titan2000]

It probably hasn't been talked about, which is unfortunate yet justified in the short term. Historically the conference has been a little top heavy so expanding would only create more games that have predetermined outcomes. If the MWC gets to a point where there are 5 or 6 legitimate contenders every year then I think they have no choice; probably not there yet however.

Any expansion would make it a 3 day event and it would present logistical problems for a host in a smaller community. So do you play all games at one host site or go campus to campus until the semifinals or final ?

IMO, and you are a lot more familiar with the MWC than I am, I'll agree with your second part, but not the first. 

Do you think when they created the conference tournament that the league was already top-heavy?  When did they create the tourament?  Anyway, if you want to argue the first part, using the current method, it's basically already pre-determined.  16-0 Lawrence vs. 9-7 Knox and 14-2 Carroll vs. 10-6 Grinnell! lol.  If the league tourney went to a 6-team format, usually the top two seeds would get byes and you'd have a much more balanced first round of 10-6 Grinnell vs. 6-10 Ripon and 9-7 Knox vs. 7-9 Beloit. 

I think it's all about logistics for the one host school and potential travel costs if the tournament was expanded.  It's well-known that the MWC schools never fill their allowed 25-game schedule (because of costs?) and this would only add to that, right?  We know that D3 conferences don't create conference tournaments to make money.

As for top-heavy, anything can happen.  There was a year in the WIAC when the #8 team beat the #1 team by 49 points and went on to the final to lose.  I have a feeling schools that are usually in those #5-#8 spots would like an expansion to say, "hey, we want a chance" but I don't anticipate it happening.  Personally, I'd rather have the WIAC go to a format like the MWC...having the top seeded team host a four-team tourney.

Next thing you know you guys will want to cancel the regualr season since it doesn't much matter anyway. 

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

The MWC doesn't fill its 25 game allowable schedule because the league set a lower limit for its schools due to academic considerations.

[The Roop]

Next thing you know you guys will want to cancel the regualr season since it doesn't much matter anyway. 

As much as I would like to say "I think you're hanging around with the people that believe Bigfoot/Chupacabra hybrids are being trained by the government to pilot black helicoptors too much". I must instead say "Don't say that too loud or you will give somebody ideas".

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Next thing you know you guys will want to cancel the regualr season since it doesn't much matter anyway. 

As much as I would like to say "I think you're hanging around with the people that believe Bigfoot/Chupacabra hybrids are being trained by the government to pilot black helicoptors too much". I must instead say "Don't say that too loud or you will give somebody ideas".

So, the government is spending too much money of the bigfoot helicopter training?

If that's what you're saying, then I whole-heartedly agree, they are totally overlooking qualified and valuable Yeti pilots simply because they were not born in North America.  It's just rediculous.

[Greek Tragedy]

Next thing you know you guys will want to cancel the regualr season since it doesn't much matter anyway. 

Sometimes I feel that way...you spend 16 conference games to decide what eight teams out of nine get into the tourney and jockeying for seeding position!  I would much rather see the regular season champion get the automatic bid.