MBB: Midwest Conference

[The Roop]

Mr. Sager,

While I cannot speak for Dolph, as I've never met him. I can say this. If you guarantee your attendance at the Beloit-Elmhurst game. The Roop shall grace the CCIW with his presence. Spit on my hand and double dog dare you to not be there.............................

The Roop

[Gregory Sager]

If I were you, I wouldn't make the long trip to DuPage County on my account, Roop. This is a very busy weekend for me, as I'm sure it is for most people. I can't say for certain one way or the other right now whether or not I'll be at Faganel Hall for the Beloit @ Elmhurst game tomorrow night, but at the moment I'd say that there's about a 25% chance that I'll be there.

[The Roop]

There we have it citizens. Invite The Roop and other members of the Buccaneer Nation, then blatantly defy a double dog dare to attend. So be it. The Roop shall not grace the Peoples Republic of Illinois with his presence this weekend. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.

[d3bbfan]

Well I wish could be like Dolph and say its as simple as getting a new coach that would help the Bucs. Peak in on practice the other day as one of my girls was there for a short camp. What I saw was a desimated squad with injuries and illness. They had 9 players out there and Hinz was on hand to lend try and help. What I saw was several players on the floor that could play on most high school jv squads. There was no challenge for the 1st team at all. How are they going to be able to get ready for a team like Emhurst. I watch as the coaching staff was doing what I considered an incredible job of trying to prepare the team. They will know what to expect form a preperation stand point but theres noway they can be prepared for the level of players they will see. The best thing they did was pit the best against the best 1 on 1.

Its not coaching here thats the issue right now. These kids are as prepared as anyone. Except for the top 7-8 (and 3 of them didn't practice the day i watched) the rest of the team wouldn't be good intermural players.

I doubt very much that the potential coach in question can do any more with this group with whats been going on with injury and such then the current head coach and staff. And as far as highly regarded in the state Coach Youngblood and Coach Gilbertson are as regarded as anyone. Maybe you've heard of Whitey Gilberstson? He knows and is repected by just about every coach in the state.

So lets get off the coaches and lets get the college to let them get some players that can compete. Beloit admissions can't continue to hold out for only 3.5's w/ 27 acts. Let in the kids with a 3.0 and a 20. The pool of players would increase dramatically.

I know Dolph is gonna rip my opinion, but it is what it is.

[The Roop]

I'm all for it but then you have to deal with a double edged sword. The lower your grades the higher your tuition bill is going to be. So just because you can get more kids in doesn't mean they can afford it. The NCAA isn't likely to care about how each school interprets their own admissions standards but if they start favoring athletes in awarding financial aid packages then you can count on a visit from them. There is no easy answer because there's always a trade off at the D3 level.

In the mean time I think the college needs to accept the fact that they do have an athletic department and not sweep it under the carpet in the name of academic splendor. I doubt that anyone frowned on the publicity that the ESPN gave them. Alumni coughed up the $20,000 for the Beloit ad in that game so it cost the college nothing.

Here's another way of looking at it. If I gave the college $140,000 they'd probably hold a banquet in my honor. Yet if I steer an athlete in their direction I don't even get a letter of thanks, save for the coaching staff who does appreciate my efforts. Whether it's a $140,000 donation or a combination of tuition and aid for $140,000 from a student athlete over 4 years, the college still gets $140,000. I'm not 100% sure how endowments work but my guess is that money is set aside in a trust and the college can't have it until it's used for the purpose intended. The point is Beloit can tap into that endowment money for athletes and non-athletes alike. From my point of view the college doesn't seem to understand that.

[Dolph Stanley]

So lets get off the coaches and lets get the college to let them get some players that can compete. Beloit admissions can't continue to hold out for only 3.5's w/ 27 acts. Let in the kids with a 3.0 and a 20. The pool of players would increase dramatically.

Just so I'm clear on this D3fan, my solution is to take a look at a coach who has produced the worst record in the MWC since his arrival nine years ago and say maybe its time for a change and yours is to lower the academic standards in to an area that would make many NAIA schools blush is that about right?

Put another way, I firmly believe that there are coaches out there who can recruit and win with the challenges a school like Beloit presents (the fact that Lawrence which is on par with Beloit in entrance requirements has 45 more wins in the same period and Grinnell which is more difficult to get in to has 26 more would seem to support that) while you think that the school should change its overall policy to try to accommodate this coaching staff?  Perhaps once these students are in Beloit could also offer some type of "General Studies" curriculum in an effort to keep them eligible while they are still of use to the program? 

For the record, the numbers you quote as a basis for being admitted are not close to what it takes to get in to Beloit as a basketball player (and since you seem to have connection with the school, I have a suspicion you know that.)  In the 05 recruiting class, I know for a fact of one player who was in with less than a 3.0 in high school and an ACT in the lower 20s.  There are a number of other past and present players who arrived with ACT scores no where near the 27 you claim as a necessary for admission.

Put simply, if this team (and it's the same refrain you have been singing for the three years I have been on this board) lacks depth. It is the coaching staffs fault.  Depth in a basketball program requires attracting and retaining 3-4 quality recruits each year.  This hardly seems like too much to ask from such a highly thought of staff  even if the requirements are somewhat more difficult than some other D3 institutions.  I do know this, regardless of who Beloit hired as a new coach after nine seasons they could not be lower than 10th in the MWC in winning percentage.

[d3bbfan]

Dolph,
obviously you too have some sort of conection at the school. I'd liek to know who the under 3.0 student is cause as far as I know (and of course I'm nowhere near as connected as you) I dont know of a one. i do know that there is a player currently at whitewater tht was a 3.5 and mid 20 act that did not get admitted. I do know that the coaching staff has told me that they don't even bother to talk to kids with 3.0's and 20 acts...its not worth the fight with addmissions. I do know that there are players at LU and LF and Knx that did not get accepted at Beloit. But the coaches are doing a terrible job recruiting. If those players had been admitted and come to Beloit we wouldnt even be having this discussion. . But you're right Dolph, the coaches have to do a better job recruiting, donesnt matter what admissions does..it's the coaches fault....I'm with ya now...lets get rid of em now...the sooner the better.

[The Roop]

Lower the standards to a point where NAIA schools would blush......... OMG that is classic.

It's always the 10% that ruins it for everybody else, or however the saying goes. Well, the basketball team only accounts for 1.25% of the student body. So who's gonna know, or care, if the team can't read or write. There is no NCAA clearing house for D3 athletes after-all. I didn't go there, therefore I don't take any pride or have bragging rights based on their academic standards.

This could very easily become a tough year for the Bucs but I think the pieces are in place for a bright future. I'd wait a couple more years before I demanded a coaches head. Healthy or not I don't expect Beloit to win @Elmhurst tonight but Elmhurst doesn't exactly have many quality wins in their 9-1 record. Hopefully Sager does go so he can give us a neutral opinion of the situation.

[Dolph Stanley]

Dolph,
obviously you too have some sort of conection at the school. I'd liek to know who the under 3.0 student is cause as far as I know (and of course I'm nowhere near as connected as you) I dont know of a one. i do know that there is a player currently at whitewater tht was a 3.5 and mid 20 act that did not get admitted. I do know that the coaching staff has told me that they don't even bother to talk to kids with 3.0's and 20 acts...its not worth the fight with addmissions.

Played in most every game as a Freshman, not with the team this year.  Will not use a name but you should be able to figure it out. 

The coaching staff should not waste their time with kids who score 20 on the ACT as they should not be admitted. 

Again, if the coaches can't recruit within the standards of the school (and I beleive the admissions staff would probably give you a much different version of the basketball recruiting process at Beloit if they were allowed to speak freely) then you have two choices, either find a coach who can or change the standards of an academic institution to accomadate the current coach.  Beloit already considers athletics when admitting students but apparently you feel the current coaching staff needs more of an edge. 

[Dolph Stanley]

. But you're right Dolph, the coaches have to do a better job recruiting, donesnt matter what admissions does..it's the coaches fault....I'm with ya now...lets get rid of em now...the sooner the better.

No, now I see it your way.  Lets give them nine more years.  Who knows, maybe they can find a few more football recruits (a program that has nowhere near the worst record in the MWC over the past nine years despite needing to get many more kids in to school facing the same standards as the basketball program, or is it some type of conspiracy against only B-Ball) to end up filling in.  Maybe they can find some more relatives of people associated with the school who can show up unrecruited and become the teams best player.  The 30 parents, 25 students 10 faculty and 10 people from town who show up for games these days can have the pleasure of watching more kids like Grant, Flowers and Hinz (great players all) miss the conference tournament as the team (pick one or more) has too many injuries, came out flat at the start of the game, didn't seem ot make adjustments at half time, couldn't get enough quality players in to school, suddenly forgot how to shoot, rebound, play defense, etc. or got screwed by refs who clearly were anti Beloit.

Nine more years and we could be turning the corner.

[Gregory Sager]

Healthy or not I don't expect Beloit to win @Elmhurst tonight but Elmhurst doesn't exactly have many quality wins in their 9-1 record.

"Many" is a relative term, but Elmhurst's victories over UW-Oshkosh and UW-Whitewater are not only "quality wins", they're quality wins of a very high caliber.

[titan2000]

I think Ted Van Dellen and the UW-Oshkosh Titans were looking ahead to the Super Bowl vs. Lawrence when they lost that game at Elmhurst.

Good thing they pulled it out. 

[The Roop]

Don't sell out the Bucs before the game is even played. The Warhawks are not the world-beaters that both you and the D3hoops.com pollsters are making them out to be. UWW only beat lowly Marian of the NAthCon by four this evening, 74-70, and it wasn't one of those "deceptively close" scores, either. Marian had a four-point lead going into the last quarter, and they were down by a single possession with under twenty seconds left in the game.

Doesn't sound to me like Whitewater falls into the "quality" wins category. Unless of course somebody from the CCIW beats them. Then they've just upset Duke or something like it.

Romanae ite domum

Sick, hurt or otherwise I don't think a 15 point loss at Elmhurst is anything to be ashamed of. 28% shooting in the second half is not how you get it done however. Sorry Dolph but the Bucs covered the Roop Vegas spread. I hope you're not living in a van by the river now.

[Dolph Stanley]

Sick, hurt or otherwise I don't think a 15 point loss at Elmhurst is anything to be ashamed of. 28% shooting in the second half is not how you get it done however. Sorry Dolph but the Bucs covered the Roop Vegas spread. I hope you're not living in a van by the river now.

Clearly a loss to build a program around. 

[The Roop]

Give it a rest Dolph, nobody is benefiting.

History Channel has a show on about Nostradomus right now. Seems to me people are giving modern day meanings to his fanciful tales because everybody needs to believe in something. Did it ever occur to anyone that maybe he was stoned and just started writing things ?? I'm not stoned but here's a test of my theory.

"From the south there will become great unrest in the center of the new land. Those of character shall adjourn themselves away from the situation lest they fall unto the plague."

Translation = Hoopsfan will move

Am I so great that I cannot see my own brilliance ?? No, I just made something up. And I think Nostradomus made lots of things up. Believe what you want but the situation at Beloit is something that you will just have to accept Dolph. I will give you one thing though. Beloit over-scheduled this year so their record at seasons end will not be very impressive.

Like it or not but the MWC Tournament will be in Beloit in two years.