MBB: Midwest Conference

[The Roop]

slightly off topic (ok, way off topic) - I noticed last night that MC had cheerleaders. I don't go to the road games, so I'd never seen this before. How many of the MWC teams actually have cheerleaders for their bball teams? I don't think I saw any at the LU game. I can tell you definitively that GC doesn't (I don't think the Scarlet Sea counts).

Just curious.....

I remember Ripon having cheerleaders last year but don't recall any formal routines. Although I will admit that my half-time routine involves heading outside for a quick cherry cigar. I feel it's only appropriate to have a "Swisher" at a basketball game.

At one time I'd say every team in the conference had them but now just a few remain. I'm sure a cheerleading squad falls under the "unnecessary expense" category for many schools. Which is unfortunate from a "team spirit" stand point but quite understandable from an economics point of view. Since Dance Team attire can be anything that matches it's available off the shelf and requires no custom ordering. 1 in wife size for the choreographer and 12 in mistress size for the team. Yes, I stole that line from the Simpsons.

[RiponRed34]

What that a shot at me or MC?

[The Roop]

More of a general statement on cheerleading squads, or lack thereof, in the MWC. Cheerleading isn't that popular in this part of the country, particulalry at the small college level. The long version involves more time than the subject actually warrants so I kept it simple.

R R thirty four
Please do not have a cow man
You were not a mark

[fightingscots13]

There was discussion last year and this year (just a couple weeks ago, I think) regarding Grotberg and his ability to play at other schools.  After seeing GC last night I'll offer my two cents:

The easy answer is yes, he could play at any other MWC school and have some success.  What's not so easy is saying whether or not he'd be one of the top 5 or 10 in the league, and here's why...Everyone knows he can score in a variety of ways, but he has the luxury of being able to "rest" on the defensive end (don't get your panties in a bunch, 'neers - i'll get to the point).  In a "normal" offense, multiple screens are set and the ball moves from side to side multiple times, and in the MWC, things can get physical, and it takes a toll on players...Grotberg (and Arsenault and Long, too) doesn't have to worry about that.  There's two or three other players doing the running around and trapping most of the time (not all the time, but a lot).

Also, even though he has the ball in his hands a lot on the offensive end, it doesn't take nearly as much energy to handle it for 10 seconds as it does to play defense for 30 seconds.

So, with that being said, I can't say how good he could be.  Too many questions come up - can he score within the framework of a "normal" offense, where there's helpside 'D' all the time?  Would the physical pounding of playing man-to-man for 30+ minutes affect him (and any other GC players for that matter)?

If the MWC were D-1, there'd probably be statisticians who could tell you the value of each player to their team...so is Grotberg more valuable because he scores a lot and shoot his ft's well, or is someone like Rogers (since I'm from MC), who is in the top 15 in scoring, rebounding, fg %, assists, steals and who also shoots his ft's well?? 

Probably some things I missed, but I'm trying to get out the door...

[The Roop]

Good points all around fs13.

Grotberg is certainly a talented player but you are right to ask "What would he do in a conventional offense". I don't have tons of stats in front of me to compare but I have seen him in action a few times. I think his scoring goes down. Free throw % remains unchanged. It's very simple. Somebody goes off for a bunch of points all the time and other teams take notice to shut him down. In "The System" you can't always do that.

Here's an exercise for all you statismaticians out there. Take Grotbergs scoring average divided by minutes played. Translate that into 35 minutes of playing time in a "regular" game and what do you have.................................. I've not calculated it myself, nor would I give the answer if I did. That's why I called it an exercise.

As for the speculation of him leaving Grinnell for a D1.............. He could but we'd never hear of him again. He's good but he's not D1 good, not yet. Talk of leaving early for the NBA is nonsense, although a career in Europe after graduation would not surprise me.

[systemfan86]

Here's an exercise for all you statismaticians out there. Take Grotbergs scoring average divided by minutes played. Translate that into 35 minutes of playing time in a "regular" game and what do you have.................................. I've not calculated it myself, nor would I give the answer if I did. That's why I called it an exercise.

For what it's worth...558 points, 402 minutes becomes 1.39 points per minute, times 35 minutes gives 48.6 points per game.

Hmmm, don't think the argument was made that he would be better...

Unfortunately for the calculation, his shots per minute is pretty high - 600 attempts if you include FTA.

I think one of the interesting aspects of this question might be, what did he do in high school? He hasn't always played system ball, you know.

[systemfan86]

Isn't he the star of Alias? 

I was going to say "wasn't he that old guy who played Mel Gibsons's father in that old west movie with Jodie Foster."

But, I thought that might give systemfan a heart attack or something, so I dialed it down a few notches.

LOL. Nope that's a good one.

Of course, no one has indicated that they understood the musical reference yet.

[fightingscots13]

sf86 - you can argue his h.s. career, but him being good in a normal h.s. offense doesn't automatically translate into him being good in a normal college offense.  It doesn't sound like guaranteeing his success in a normal offense, but I think some take it for granted that a good h.s. player should automatically be a good college player.

On kind of a side note, I'd be interested to hear what former college players think is the biggest transition from h.s. to the college level...for me, it was adjusting to how physical the game was and realizing that instead of playing against h.s teams with a few good players, you were playing against teams with 7, 8 or 9 good players.

...and no, I didn't get the musical reference.

[Pat Coleman]

A competent SID department from the visiting school would provide a pronounciation key.  And,  competent announcers would use it.     I'm too far removed from the roster to be sure, but I think the announcers were mispronouncing some of the Scots' names as well.  So don't take it too hard Jdc. 

Competent announcers wouldn't wait for a key. They would ask the SID or an assistant coach how to pronounce names.

[systemfan86]

sf86 - you can argue his h.s. career, but him being good in a normal h.s. offense doesn't automatically translate into him being good in a normal college offense.  It doesn't sound like guaranteeing his success in a normal offense, but I think some take it for granted that a good h.s. player should automatically be a good college player.

O.K., but if we can't tell how good he'd be in a slower paced more generic offense - I reject the term 'normal' since there are so many variations out there - because he doesn't play in one in college, and we can't extrapolate from his high school career where he played a similar pace, how do you propose we answer the question? If there is no way to do it, WHY ASK?!

My point was that coming out of his junior year of high school in the Ann Arbor/Detroit area, he was drawing some interest from DI and DII schools. There was a nice article about TTMG in the Ann Arbor paper the other day http://www.mlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/1169809802179350.xml?aanews?SHSBB&coll=2.

How many other players in the MWC received that kind of attention as juniors much less seniors?! If there are 5 others in the league that did, I'd honestly be surprised.

I think this is one of those no win situations. 

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Isn't he the star of Alias? 

I was going to say "wasn't he that old guy who played Mel Gibsons's father in that old west movie with Jodie Foster."

But, I thought that might give systemfan a heart attack or something, so I dialed it down a few notches.

LOL. Nope that's a good one.

Of course, no one has indicated that they understood the musical reference yet.

I just figured April would come through for you on that one.

[jeffdc]

ok, best of luck to GC in their showdown with CC tomorrow:

Ticus and Idrissa, steal like you were government contractors!
Jr., toss the ball to Schmidt occasionally, ok?
JohnG- remember 46 ppg is the new 30
Trek, keep that streak going!
Chamberlain, you've been intimidating lately. That's good!
Bobby, CC may be taller but they sure as heck aren't as fast as you!

Should be a great game!
Maybe we can persuade JeffP to do double duty as the GC cheerleading squad of one.... 

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Maybe we can persuade JeffP to do double duty as the GC cheerleading squad of one...

I'd totally make the trip up there to see that one.

[jeffdc]

Yep, the combination of pony tail and pom-poms could be quite, er, dramatic...

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Yep, the combination of pony tail and pom-poms could be quite, er, dramatic...

Actually you and he cheerleading together could be a modern day laurel and hardy you tube video.