MBB: Midwest Conference

[Titan Q]

Redlands v Grinnell or Puget Sound v Grinnell would be System v System either way. I would LOVE to see these matchups in the tourney!

More later if I can stay awake when the store slows down this AM...

I saw Puget Sound play twice last year (vs IWU at Westmont College tournament, vs IWU at Lawrence in NCAA tournament) and they really don't run the System.  Their backcourt pressure is similar to Grinnell's, but the defense employed in the frontcourt is not.  It is intense pressure on the ball, but not trapping all over the place.  In general, the Loggers do not gamble nearly as much as Grinnell on defense -- the opponents rarely get the breakaway layups/dunks that GC opponents get.

Also, Puget Sound's offense is much different than Grinnell's and the System teams.  The Loggers do not not focus on the 3-pt shot as much and they actually have a solid low post game.  They also do not shoot anywhere near as quickly in the shot clock.

A check of final 2005-06 stats illustrates how different Puget Sound's style is from the System on both sides of the floor...


PPG
Puget Sound: 95.4
Grinnell: 117.3

Opponent PPG
Puget Sound: 84.0
Grinnell: 112.7

Total FGA/game
Puget Sound: 67
Grinnell: 92

Opponent FGA/game
Puget Sound 58
Grinnell: 73

% of FGA that are 3's
Grinnell: 59%
Puget Sound: 37%

% of Opp. FGA that are 3's
Grinnell: 12%
Puget Sound: 24%

Opponent FG%
Puget Sound: .529
Grinnell: .615

Opponent Assist to Turnover Ratio
Puget Sound:1.13
Grinnell: 0.59

[The Roop]

I don't foresee ANY kind of situation where the MWC gets two teams in. 

I do. Everybody else in the country gets caught for using ineligible players and has to forfeit half their games. That should put two in from the MWC. LMAO.

And I was thinking Whitworth but wrote George Fox for some reason. Probably because they have been Puget Sounds main competition in recent years. In any case, I think there is a good chance that one of those western conferences gets two in this year. So depending on how the independants finish the NCAA will likely ship someone from this area out to the left coast.

Don't look now but I'm thinking that MSOE is the team that makes that trip. They have the luxury of falling under Pool B criteria so an impressive record isn't required to make the dance. Presently they have all but assured themselves a winning record and will host a Pool B Tournament at the end of the regular season.

The NAthCon falls under Pool B criteria as well, but I think the NCAA will respect the conference and keep their winner close to home. I just hope that the MWC has not lost all the lustor that LU has given it in recent years. There are certainly "dance caliber" teams in the MWC this year but nobody is going to have a record worth bragging about. In other words the MWC champ will be seeded as a first round opponent for the host team from the CCIW or WIAC, depending on where the byes fall.

This will be one of the most exciting years in recent MWC history but from the NCAAs point of view the MWC is back down to average at best again. Which really isn't true but when you're surrounded by the conferences they are it's difficult to shine. Ahhhh, if only the MWC was in an eastern region...........

And yes I'm still mad about Beloits performance last night. To the point that I'm considering the purchase of a Ripon shirt. What the heck, they already have somebody on their roster from the same high school as Recruit X so he might as well go there too.

[hjmphelp]

Well, TQ, the fella that runs the "system" website says that Puget considers themselves a system team so I guess I will too. Lots of variations here just like with any style of play.

[Titan Q]

Well, TQ, the fella that runs the "system" website says that Puget considers themselves a system team so I guess I will too. Lots of variations here just like with any style of play.

Thanks Jeff.

When we interviewed former Puget Sound head coach Eric Bridgeland last year and asked him about it, he said he did not consider his squad a "System team."  Said there were some "defensive similarities", but that was about it.  I remember him mentioning all of the specific goals of the Grinnell system and how his team did not have any of the same metrics.  I'm not familiar with the website you mention, but that's the conversation we had last year with the UPS coach.

It seems like there is a big difference between UPS and System disciples like Redlands and Emory & Henry...more than to even call it a "variation" of the System.  This blog (2/3/05 entry) says UPS runs a version of coach Vance Walberg's system.  I don't know if the blogger knows what he is talking about or not, but...

http://highfivehoopschool.blogspot.com/2005_01_30_highfivehoopschool_archive.html

If the media wants to look an alternative system, and one that leads to wins, look at Fresno City College and Coach Vance Walberg. The Hustlin' Rams press; but, they do not give up lay-ups. They are tough to score against. Their press is unique; it is not a set press, but the players learn to read the offense and adjust to their teammates. If one goes to trap, they rotate and fill and take away angles. They learn to guard three players with two. They force a lot of turnovers, but do not give up near the lay-ups, and nobody shoots 70% against them.

Offensively, they go quickly. There is not the ball movement of the Grinnell System; heck, Grinnell looked like Princeton at some points. The Hustlin' Rams attack the basket immediately; if the drive is cut off, they find the open man and knock down an open three-pointer. They do not hold the ball. Everything is fast. They quicken the tempo and force the opponent to play their pace.

More importantly, they win. Consistently. And, programs like University of Puget Sound that copy the Walberg system win too. UPS went further into the play-offs in the second season using the system than they had in the history of the school and are currently #10 in the nation according to D3 Hoops. Last season, they lost two games; one early and the other to the eventual DIII National Champions.




Hey, either way your System team is 9-3 and tied for 1st in the MWC.  Life is good?!

[The Roop]

The Super Bowl is cancelled..........................

Mom has always been a Bears fan, why I'll never know because she never lived in Illinois. She also likes Tony Dungy very much and can't make up her mind about the game. Therefore the NFL has cancelled the game so as to not cause her too much stress. Commercials will still be aired during the replacement programming of "Velvet Art: Dogs playing cards".

[systemfan86]

Two maybe three (or four) numbers jump out at me from the Pioneer v Pioneer game box score. The first two numbers are 32 and 7. 32 turnovers by Carroll last night; they had 23 when these two played in Waukesha; and 7 turnovers by Drury. That was actually less than the 10 he had on 12-2, but it's still a lot. That may have made a difference in the game.

The other numbers are 22 and 0. Carroll shot only 22 FTs last night (vs. 32 when they beat GC). And Drury never made it to the line last night; he only had 4 before, but I have to admit 0 is a surprise for a player as good as he is.

I think it's also interesting that CC had 3 players - including 1 starter - foul out last night. No such foul trouble the first time.

[The Roop]

You know Systemfan, just because somebody was talking about system vs. system doesn't mean you can jump in here with your pioneers vs. pioneers talk. I believe I had already changed the subject to something more important like velvet art and now you've shot down all future discussion on that topic. Feel better ?? Go get a 5-way to redeem yourself because I don't like them either and it should be suitable punishment. LOL.

Stay away from Newport though or you'll wind up in jail like a Bengals player.

[jeffdc]

Good luck to GC on their rematch today with SNC! Even if it's -1 outside, keep it steaming inside Darby!

[systemfan86]

You know Systemfan, just because somebody was talking about system vs. system doesn't mean you can jump in here with your pioneers vs. pioneers talk. I believe I had already changed the subject to something more important like velvet art and now you've shot down all future discussion on that topic. Feel better ?? Go get a 5-way to redeem yourself because I don't like them either and it should be suitable punishment. LOL.

Stay away from Newport though or you'll wind up in jail like a Bengals player.

Mea culpa, The Roop.

I'm not so sure about the 5-way...If I finish one of those, my wife won't get anywhere near me for the next couple of days. A 3-way is more to my tastes.

[systemfan86]

Here's hoping for another great effort out of the GC team. Just like last night, I'm pulling for the home teams to defend their courts.

If/when Grinnell wins today, should be start looking at this team as somethiing a little special? Yeah, I'm biased, but a 10 game win streak is an accomplishment in any league. They struggled a little at the beginning of the year, but they keep finding a way to win. 

[RiponRed34]

Will the superbowl get here already!

BEARS!


Systemfan,

The stats that jump out on me are like you said, turnovers and FT's.  You will never win committing that many TO's.  But I'm still shocked everytime I see such a foul discrepancy and FT discrepancy in favor of Grinnell.  Did a lot of those fouls come at the end of the game?  It's just mind boggling to me when that happens and I'm sure it's mind boggling to most players in this chat room that have plalyed against GC.  They foul an awful lot....how can you not when you trap and swam that aggressively?  That being said, it's got to make you feel good that your "all-american" can have a gross night and still beat one of the best teams in the league.

Speaking of coach's son's (Davey).  Gillespie's kid is most likely going to play for him next year, unless he gets a good D1 offer.  He's averaging 26/game and 14/rbs, but for a small division...still very good number none the less.  Plus this kid has been playing against good D3 competition since he was born (Roop, don't take me literally).  Should boost the program!

I can see it now the "The Son Wars"

[fightintitan2006]

thanks for the knowledge Roop...someone already asked the next question I was getting at, which was the possiblity of GC getting sent west and playing redlands or vice versa.

Playing the CCIW champ doesnt look to be as daunting as it has in past years, especially if its not Augustana.

IC beat Millikin and NP who both have played tough in the CCIW and pulled off some upsets.  IC had Jennings at the time, but still looked like a middle of the pack team even if he kept playing.

[RiponRed34]

Big game tonight: LU vs. LFC

This game might prove to be the "battle for fourth."  The loser can't like their odds on making the tourney.  That's why my money is on LU.

[hjmphelp]

RR34-
Actually, the foul meter swung more towards Carroll's favor in the second half until the last 3 minutes or so when Carroll started fouling from behind trying to get back in. GC was only 50% from the line in the 2nd half, so it almost worked.

TitanQ- you are absolutely right! I appologize for the mis-information. Puget coaches have been in contact with the system site but do NOT consider themselves a system team. Pardon my tired-ass self for mis-reading and misinforming.

Off to see the St Norbert v GC game in hopes the legs are back and the shots are on target! I'll try to post some thoughts on both weekend games tonight or tomorrow. Last night was fun and I hope this afteroon follows suit!

[Titan Q]

TitanQ- you are absolutely right! I appologize for the mis-information. Puget coaches have been in contact with the system site but do NOT consider themselves a system team. Pardon my tired-ass self for mis-reading and misinforming.

Jeff, I apologize...I am not trying to suggest you are misinforming anyone.  Just pointing out that there are also plenty of examples of Puget Sound claiming not to be a System team.



SOUND'S LIKE GRINNELL: We thought we had stumbled upon another Grinnell-style program when we checked out the stats of the Puget Sound men's basketball team. The Loggers average 108 ppg, play an 11-man rotation, shoot 33 3-pointers per game, and force 25 turnovers. But third-year head coach Eric Bridgeland said his system isn't as extreme.

"We don't have a set time in which we try to get a shot off," said Bridgeland, explaining that the pace isn't quite as hectic as those of the teams profiled here. "We do press a lot to force turnovers. Most of our baskets are scored off turnovers. We're not a Grinnell or a Loyola Marymount.

http://www.d3hoops.com/nation/04/dec23.htm