MBB: Midwest Conference

[Dolph Stanley]

It looks like it is official.  "Ferrall's Folly" is about to be followed up by "Burris's Blunder" (you could include some reference to the AD in here as well.)

[The Roop]

I take it the interview process is not going well.

[d3bbfan]

guess they didnt hire dolph's guy....but youngblood was sooooo bad, horrible and rotten it really should matter who they hire...its got to be better.

[Dolph Stanley]

I get it D3, he is your buddy.  He probably let your kid be a ball boy or let you sit on the end of the bench for a game or maybe even whispered in your ear secrets of the program.  None of that changes the fact that for whatever reason, he simply could not win basketball games.

You argued that he couldn't catch a break with recruiting, admissions, injuries etc. and every time I called you on it you fell back on attacking me and attempting to label facts as hatred or racism. 

As a coach, Youngblood failed to achieve.  As I have stated before (this is where the comprehension part comes in) he seems like a fine man, many of his players really liked him, etc but unless you can come up with some strange measuring stick he was not the right person to coach Beloit College under the current circumstances. 


Yes, I am disapointed that I have heard that they will not get the coach I  felt could work within the curren system at Beloit to bring them back to at least a respectable level.  Based on my understanding, there is some very short sighted thinking that has caused this (however, nothing as convulted as the thinking by the past president at the time the former coach was hired.) Regardless of who is hired, my bet is still out there.  Still waiting to hear if you want the 1 year, three year, five year or nine year time frame. 

[The Roop]

In a way it's too bad that Beloit won't be getting "Dolphs Choice" and in a way it's not. I don't think he'd be around very long at the D3 level and the last thing Beloit needs are musical coaches every couple years. Although I wouldn't have minded seeing him there for a few seasons. But like I said a while back I'm not sure that a D3 job would be much of a promotion for him. Given his current situation I think it would be a lateral move.

I don't think there would be any danger of Beloit getting labeled as a "coaching factory" if somebody did come in and leave after a few years for greener ($$$) pastures at a higher level. And if they did get labeled, so what ?? The only thing people off campus would think is that Beloit must have a solid program and there's no crime in that. It's not like Lawrence has suddenly become Coach U. Nor have I heard any mention of an academic decline there because Tharp left for a D2 job.

Attention Beloit........... You're a D3 school. Don't pretend your athletic programs are in a fish bowl and that the whole world is watching you, because it's not.

[LU_nut]

Ripon Red.

I think that when I look at the broader picture, Tharp belongs in the "great" coaching  category.....at least based on what he accomplished at LU.  What should not be missed is the total lack of tradition and success at LU.  This is a school that won conference championships once in the 1924 and once in 1942......that is basically it.  In between, they generally had losing records.....sometimes terrible records.   Lawrence is sitting about 30 miles from both UW Oshkosh and UW Point, two traditional powerhouses.   Ripon and St. Norb's are also close by and both have much stronger traditions in athletics.

I have seen all of the facilities in the Midwest Conference and LU has the worst.....not only the gym, but weight room, etc.  The gym also sits a mile off campus....not a good situation.  Tharp had a winning record his second year at LU and won the conference his third.  The success he has had is not all been Braier.........and who is it that should get the credit for recruiting Braier?

Braier has been a huge part of the success that Tharp had at LU, but there have been numerous other very good players during the past 5-6 years.   A bunch of guys have deservedly made all conference of some sort over the past 6 years....Danny Evans, Chris McGillis, Rob Nenahlo, Andy Hurley, Ryan Kreoger, Keven Bradley, Brendan Falls, Kyle McGillis, Jason Holinbeck.  A big part of the success was the tenacity that Tharp brought and the style of play he created.    Tharp helped create the success that each of these players had including Braier.  He helped create the unselfish style and defensive intensity that has marked LU's success. 

I do not know enough about Bennett to compare the two.  I do find it interesting that a guy like Keven Bradley cannot get off the bench when he was at Point and after two years under Tharp, get all-conference recognition.  That tells me Tharp knows how to get the most out of his players.   Over the past 6-7 years that I have been watching LU play, I can also tell you they have won a ton of games against teams that had more or equal inherent talent, including several against Ripon teams.  I think the difference has been coaching.  Also remember that it was Tharp who recruited Braier and helped make him the player that he became.


It will be interesting to see if it all translates at the next level.  My instinct is that is will, but time will tell.

Nut

[gobucs]

As I understand it Cecil was required to make contact with potential recruits to let them know that he would not be the coach. That sends up a red flag that one of his assistants was not being considered. So not only did Beloit jump out of a plane without a parachute, they also required the pilot to crash after everybody jumped off.

It really "miffs" me that Beloit didn't have a plan when Cecil was promoted.......  "The Roops" quote above hits it right on the head.  LU had enough sense to name an interim coach immediately.....which makes so much sense.  In the recruiting world, a kid and his parents for that sake, like the security of having a coach (even if its interim) when they commit   As a parent of a former player, its hard for me to promote the school to a potential recruit from our conference, when they don't have a COACH! 

[Pat Coleman]

I do not know enough about Bennett to compare the two.  I do find it interesting that a guy like Keven Bradley cannot get off the bench when he was at Point and after two years under Tharp, get all-conference recognition.  That tells me Tharp knows how to get the most out of his players. 

It tells me that Bradley as a junior and senior was better than Bradley as a freshman and sophomore, or that it's easier to make All-MWC than All-WIAC.

[The Roop]

gobucs has a point. Parents talk to other parents and sometimes a kid might find Beloit College because somebody in the same high school conference went there. WOW. Non academic advertising.

Beloit doesn't have to do anything for me, because I am only a fan, however......... Beloit does have a responsibility to acknowledge the efforts made by their students, alums and parents....... of which gobucs might be one........

Disregard me all you like now, but soon I will be in the "Gold" circle. Look out........."The Roop" will soon have an "official opinion".

[fightintitan2006]

"Burris's Blunder"   Can we assume that your guy was offered the job, but BC wouldn't pony up enough cash. Unless the president is part of the coaching search committee, but that wouldn't seem likely.

A question for board members. Considering Grinnell rose to 7th in the regional rankings with 6 losses late last year and teams like UW-Oshkosh and LAX didn't make the NCAA tourney as at-larges...knowing that Grinnell has the nucleus returning from a conference champion team that could very well repeat its dominance over the league next year, would the Pioneers be better off swapping out Oshkosh, Whitewater and Carthage for three easy regional wins? I know the adages about playing the best to be the best, but realistically, Grinnell's postseason success will always depend more on matchups and how they are shooting from downtown than it will on preparation. If GC had a conference tourney slip up again next year, but had a gaudy record, it seems like it would be hard for the committee to pass them up.

[titan2000]

Despite the gaudy record, I think Oshkosh and several other WIAC teams are much better.  I wish Grinnell would join that Iowa conference and we could play two more basketball games a year in the MWC.

[Greek Tragedy]

A question for board members. Considering Grinnell rose to 7th in the regional rankings with 6 losses late last year and teams like UW-Oshkosh and LAX didn't make the NCAA tourney as at-larges...knowing that Grinnell has the nucleus returning from a conference champion team that could very well repeat its dominance over the league next year, would the Pioneers be better off swapping out Oshkosh, Whitewater and Carthage for three easy regional wins? I know the adages about playing the best to be the best, but realistically, Grinnell's postseason success will always depend more on matchups and how they are shooting from downtown than it will on preparation. If GC had a conference tourney slip up again next year, but had a gaudy record, it seems like it would be hard for the committee to pass them up.

Grinnell won 13 in a row before falling in their conference tourney.  Rising to 7th?  Wow, exciting! lol  ;)Oshkosh was 4th in their region. 

Midwest Region
1. (12) Chicago 20-5 19-5 (LOST to Washington U., needs Pool C bid) POOL C
2. (18) Augustana 22-5 22-4 (Won CCIW AQ)
3. (9) Washington U. 12-4 18-4 (defeats Chicago in UAA, gets UAA AQ)
4. (14) Aurora 25-2 24-2 (Won NathCon Final:  POOL B
5. (57) Elmhurst 21-6 17-6 (LOST to Augustana in CCIW Final)
6. (73) Carthage 16-9 13-8 ([Reg. season complete, did not make CCIW tourney)
7. (64) Grinnell 17-7 16-7 (LOST to Lake Forest in MWC Semis)
8. (70) Wheaton (Ill.) 17-9 13-8 (LOST to Elmhurst in CCIW Semis)

West Region
1. (1) UW-Stevens Point 25-2 24-1 (Won WIAC AQ)
2. (5) St. Thomas 24-3 24-3 (Won MIAC AQ)
3. (23) St. John's 20-7 20-4 (LOST to St. Thomas in MIAC Final) POOL C
4. (34) UW-Oshkosh 21-6 18-6 (LOST to La Crosse in WIAC Semis)
5. (16) Occidental 19-5 14-3 (Won SCIAC AQ)
6. (28) Whitworth 23-3 20-3 (Won NWC AQ)
7. (29) Loras 21-6 19-4 (Won IIAC AQ)
8. (41) UW-La Crosse 19-8 17-7 (LOST to Stevens Point in WIAC Final)

Part of the reason their QOWI was so low (64th) is because the conference was so bad, not necessarily because they had seven losses, though THAT is a reason too.  If I'm correct, Grinnell's big win vs. Illinois College was worth exactly one more point (8 pts for a home WIN at team with a regional winning percentage less than .333) than their road losses to powerhouses Oshkosh and Whitewater (7 pts for a road loss at a team with a regional winning percentage at or above .667)

It's noted that I remember a discussion about a team at .66666666666 is not considered at or above .667 for some reason, not sure how the NCAA worked that out.

Anyway, I've also heard that it's hard for Grinnell, because of their style of play, to find nonconference games...let alone in-region, NCAA D3 games.  Take what you can get.  This isn't D-1 either when those huge schools from power conferences can just dial up some little mid-major school and pay them a ton to come and get smoked so they can pad their record.  Everyone wants to win, so you can't assume some other regional team would be willing to play Grinnell so they can get creamed, letting Grinnell get that "easy regional win".  Of course, I wouldn't call Grinnell a traditional powerhouse, so claiming they'd get any "easy regional wins" is a bit crazy to begin with. 

[Greek Tragedy]

LU's women's coach follows suit...Proctor resigns

[fightintitan2006]

I didn't mean to construe Grinnell as being anything near a powerhouse...the general thought is that the system allows them to play with teams that are better than them, but allows teams who aren't as good to stay in games against them. That being said, in the Grotberg era, they have won every non-conference game that I would deem as "games they should win."

So if they can swap a middle to bottom tier team from the IIAC, NAC and SLIAC (and win accordingly) for the three aforementioned and then run the table or close to it in the MWC, while the WIAC and others beat up on each other in conference play, would Grinnell have a chance of sneaking by them in the regional rankings and then possibly grabbing an at-large bid?

I don't follow or know the selection criteria very well, so I guess my real question is if it came down to an at-large berth in the region...would the committee take a 19-6 WIAC school ranked sixth in region over a 22-2 Grinnell team ranked eighth?

[sac]

Next year D3 is supposed to use something resembling an RPI rating.  From what i've figured on a limited basis, a tougher schedule and tougher conference will be of bigger benefit than simply winning a lot of games.

I fully expect the "power" conference like the CCIW and WIAC to be in better positions to get 2 teams in than they were this year.

The tournament selection will still be largely based on Regional records and rankings.