MBB: Midwest Conference

[Buc Fan]

As Augiefan said "I think the new AD is motivated to improve things, and there are some indications that she is making slow progress, but to those who know and love the tradition of Beloit College basketball, the Burris/Youngblood years have been painful." 
You can't be serious!  What will be more painful is the next few.  If they do win more it will not be because  they are  being coached better it will be because of the help the department is giving to the program, and the AD making slow progress, yeah Ok, I would agree if the end goal was moving backward like it seems the athletic program is moving.  Not an improvement! Good job Beloit....

[Pat Coleman]

http://www.ycp.edu/athletics/403.htm

[Greek Tragedy]

From the article: While Randall didn't want to be specific, it's obvious that beyond (1) higher compensation, he wanted (2) more free reign in whom he recruits, (3) how he spends his off-season time (he particularly disliked the idea of coaching the golf team) and (4) whether he could have a full-time assistant working alongside him (which Youngblood did not).

1) The money thing is a normal one to negotiate, esp considering he'd have to be willing to take a paycut no matter what he got at a DIII school seeing as how he was coming from a DI... a little more (if that's what it was) wasn't necessarily a bad thing to ask for... especially for a father. He was obviously willing to consider the job despite this... because it's his school.... You absolutely can't ask for a better coach than alum who has proven himself to be very successful elsewhere... first of all, they're good, and second of all, they're a LOT less likely to leave even when they are overqualified cause deep down it's their dream job.

Actually, he was coaching D1...in high school.  He quit his St. Louis University job as an assistant when his dad died and took over D1-Wisconsin state high school Oshkosh West, leading them to WIAA D1 State titles.    So, I'm sure it was a huge salary boost, but maybe not as big of a raise that he wanted from Beloit.  Possibly, Beloit lowballed their offer, thinking, an alumnus will come back no matter what the offer is.  Oops.

2) Recruiting flexibility... no way, good job Beloit. There are plenty of smart athletes out there.

Apparently you're assuming it has to do with lowering the academic requirements.  Maybe it has to do with recruiting windows, costs etc.  You may be right, but you may also be wrong.  I have no idea, but I don't think it's right to jump to those conclusions.

Now, about the last two...

3) Being the head coach of the bball and the golf coach? Are you joking? How can you seriously expect a coach to do a good job with a basketball program if he can't devote his full time to it? I can't personally think of a single other head men's basketball coach that coaches something else... at least not at the moment. That was not an unreasonable demand... at ALL.

It's obviously been posted that it does actually happen, more than what April thinks! lol. 

My beloved Pointers would welcome him if Mr. Semling ever ascends to another level.

I find it interesting that you haven't made an effort to head down to Quandt from Wausau in the past.  It's only 1/2 hour away!  I also noticed you changed your Roopachino or whatever, to the Pointer dog.  Funny stuff.

Thanks.  I was just a bit leery.  Someone came on the NESCAC board and said "Amherst won't get respect until they schedule Stevens Point and Brockport State for their tip-off tournament."  Then about a week later, some guy posted that Amherst had indeed scheduled both Brockport and Stevens Point for their tip-off tournament.  I wasn't sure if you were picking up on the growing rumor, but it's pretty cool to know that at least one of those match-ups might happen.

Hadn't made it to the NESCAC page in quite sometime, so I had no idea they were discussing it.  Nice job, but it doesn't help either of us, come NCAA time.

[titan2000]

http://www.beloitdailynews.com/articles/2007/04/16/sports/sports04.txt
I wanted him for a coach but congratulate Beloit on not selling out a college for a basketball program. 

From the article: While Randall didn't want to be specific, it's obvious that beyond (1) higher compensation, he wanted (2) more free reign in whom he recruits, (3) how he spends his off-season time (he particularly disliked the idea of coaching the golf team) and (4) whether he could have a full-time assistant working alongside him (which Youngblood did not).

1) The money thing is a normal one to negotiate, esp considering he'd have to be willing to take a paycut no matter what he got at a DIII school seeing as how he was coming from a DI... a little more (if that's what it was) wasn't necessarily a bad thing to ask for... especially for a father. He was obviously willing to consider the job despite this... because it's his school.... You absolutely can't ask for a better coach than alum who has proven himself to be very successful elsewhere... first of all, they're good, and second of all, they're a LOT less likely to leave even when they are overqualified cause deep down it's their dream job.

2) Recruiting flexibility... no way, good job Beloit. There are plenty of smart athletes out there.

Now, about the last two...

3) Being the head coach of the bball and the golf coach? Are you joking? How can you seriously expect a coach to do a good job with a basketball program if he can't devote his full time to it? I can't personally think of a single other head men's basketball coach that coaches something else... at least not at the moment. That was not an unreasonable demand... at ALL.

4) It's not abnormal to have a full time assistant. Wheaton has one... lots of schools have one. They usually double and do something else, like be the head golf coach... At Wheaton, our assistant coach is an assistant SID, before he was the director of intermurals.... but they don't have to have an outside the athletics office job that keeps them away from the recruiting process during the offseason.

If the college had seriously considered 1, 3, and 4... which they should consider no matter who it is, they probably would have landed him.

Beloit used to be one of the powers in basketball... I remember reading that in that Great Moments in WI Sports book and being shocked cause I just had no idea. It looks like if something doesn't change, they aren't going to be one ANY time soon either. It is definitely possible to be an excellent school academically and have a much higher commitment to their athletic departments and student-athletes than the school obviously have. Just ask Williams, Amherst, Wash U... What a shame. 

JoJo Depagter is the LU golf coach and head basketball coach.  I think that will be a challenge long term for him.

[titan2000]

Roop:

While the proximity to Quandt will be an advantage, I would suggest you buy youself one of those cheap looking purple cardigan sweaters and get a season ticket, or the fine folks at Quandt will put you behind the band in the end zone.  And the girls in the Pointer Band aren't band camp material, ala American Pie anyway. 

I suspect if Tharp would have stayed at LU you could have switched your allegiance to that Beloit grad and began to enjoy the greatly improved Highway 10.

Let us know when you start feeling inferior.

T2K

[Mr. Ypsi]

Not to pick on April anymore - she DID raise an interesting point.  I wonder how many coaches in d3 these days DO coach only one sport.  I'm sure it is more common now than when I was at IWU nearly 40 years ago, but Dennie Bridges (the great basketball coach) was also my tennis coach, and Don Larsen (the extremely successful football coach) doubled as my track coach (both also had a full-load of PE classes).  As I recall, there were only four faculty (and they WERE faculty) in the athletic department, and they collectively coached every sport IWU offered (though that was far fewer than today).

I'm sure things have changed a great deal, but I wonder if this isn't still the norm at a majority of d3 schools.  And even at the nationally competitive schools, I wonder how many coaches are allowed to focus on only one sport (I seem to recall that even Larry Kehres (Mount Union's football coach) also works with the track team, though I'm hazy on that).  Anyone have any numbers on basketball coaches who have no other responsibilities?

[RiponRed34]

Beloit made a GREAT decision in hiring Vraney.

That's the best news I've seen for Beloit in a long time.

I played for Coach Vraney and of course you're going to think I bias, but that guy worked his tail off for RC.  He has a pretty impressive list of basketball minds that he's learned from (Stan Van Gundy, Bennett, Ryan, Gillespie, Congar).  He's a great guy and has a great family.  He often scouted at night, worked all day and then would come to practice by 4.  He ALWAYS stayed after and worked with any player that wanted work.  He'll really help out Beloits post players.

He is an intense no nonsense guy.

And you wanna know why I know he'll succeed?  After work, practice, workouts after practice, you would always find him in the gym working out, shooting hoops.  He is exactly what Beloit needs.  He loves basketball.

Don't be mad Roop, but Beloit has officially become my second favorite D3 squad.

[Pat Coleman]

I actually think the vast, vast majority of basketball coaches do not coach a second sport.

However, golf would be the easiest, I'd say, for those who double up.

[red hawk 88]

At Ripon it seems like coaching two sports is the common thing.                                                                    Rick Coles
Head Swim Coach
Assistant Football Coach (offensive coordinator)

John Dinegan
Head Women's Tennis Coach
Assistant Men's Basketball Coach

Robert Duley
Head Cross Country Coach
Head Track Coach

Ron Ernst
Assistant Athletic Director
Head Football Coach
Head Men's Golf Coach

Robert "Bob" Gillespie
Athletic Director
Head Men's Basketball Coach
Head Baseball Coach

Kelly Witte
Head Volleyball Coach
Head Softball Coach

[Buc Fan]

But does it make sense to have a football coach, coaching swimming.....Anyway, you mentioned a bunch of great qualities in Coach Varney, I would say you have all that in the youngblood too.  I think there is a lot more to getting a new coach a Beloit than one thinks.  I guess if Coach V  can paly good ball then the team will be better? Coaches dont score the points or play D.
Either way I hope BC basketball does well.

[bucs r bust]

I would like to use my first post to congratulate Brian Vraney on landing the Beloit job.  It seems to be a good fit from what I can tell.  But for those who think he is the answer need to guess again.  There was more to the problem at Beloit then just Cecil (which I don't believe was the problem).  I agree with whatthebuc who said if Vraney's first couple of seasons are positive it won't necessarily be because of the coaching change.  They will get players in there and give him everything in order to get the program competitive again.  Also, take a look at the schedule for next year.  I guess nobody noticed that they took it off their website.  Why do you think that is???  I'm guessing their not gonna play IWU, North Park, etc.  who were already schedule for next season. Nonetheless, I am an alum and hope things turn around and maybe Vraney can actually get them to play some D.

[Pat Coleman]

http://www.beloit.edu/~sportcnt/inside/basketball/men/2007-08%20season/07-08%20schedule.html

This is the schedule:

Date     Opponent     Location     Time     Score     Record
Friday, Nov. 16    vs. TBA#    Platteville, WI    TBA
Saturday, Nov. 17    vs. TBA#    Platteville, WI    TBA
Tuesday, Nov. 20    Milwaukee School of Engineering    BELOIT    7:30 p.m.
Tuesday, Nov. 27    Illinois Wesleyan University    Bloomington, IL    7:30 p.m.
Friday, Nov. 30    Illinois College*    Jacksonville, IL    7:30 p.m.              
Saturday, Dec. 1    Lake Forest College*    Lake Forest, IL    4:00 p.m.              
Wednesday, Dec. 5    Carroll College*    BELOIT    7:30 p.m.              
Saturday, Dec. 8    Elmhurst College    BELOIT    4:00 p.m.              
Saturday, Dec. 29    Augustana College    BELOIT    7:00 p.m.              
Thursday, Jan. 3    Rockford College    BELOIT    7:00 p.m.              
Saturday, Jan. 12    St. Norbert College*    De Pere, WI    4:00 p.m.              
Tuesday, January 15    Lawrence University*    BELOIT    7:30 p.m.              
Friday, Jan. 18    Monmouth College*    BELOIT    7:30 p.m.              
Saturday, Jan. 19    Grinnell College*    BELOIT    4:00 p.m.              
Friday, Jan. 25    Knox College*    Galesburg, IL    7:30 p.m.              
Saturday, Jan. 26    Monmouth College*    Monmouth, IL    4:00 p.m.              
Saturday, Feb. 2    Ripon College*    Ripon, WI    4:00 p.m.              
Tuesday, Feb. 5    Carroll College*    Waukesha, WI    7:30 p.m.              
Friday, Feb. 8    Lake Forest College*    BELOIT    7:30 p.m.              
Saturday, Feb. 9    Illinois College*    BELOIT    4:00 p.m.              
Wednesday, Feb. 13    St. Norbert College*    BELOIT    7:30 p.m.              
Saturday, Feb. 16    Lawrence University*    Appleton, WI    4:00 p.m.              
Saturday, Feb. 23    Ripon College    BELOIT    4:00 p.m.              

Wonder if it's Platteville's tournament.

[Ralph Turner]

http://www.beloit.edu/~sportcnt/inside/basketball/men/2007-08%20season/07-08%20schedule.html

This is the schedule:

Date     Opponent     Location     Time     Score     Record
Friday, Nov. 16    vs. TBA#    Platteville, WI    TBA
Saturday, Nov. 17    vs. TBA#    Platteville, WI    TBA
Tuesday, Nov. 20    Milwaukee School of Engineering    BELOIT    7:30 p.m.
Tuesday, Nov. 27    Illinois Wesleyan University    Bloomington, IL    7:30 p.m.
Friday, Nov. 30    Illinois College*    Jacksonville, IL    7:30 p.m.              
Saturday, Dec. 1    Lake Forest College*    Lake Forest, IL    4:00 p.m.              
Wednesday, Dec. 5    Carroll College*    BELOIT    7:30 p.m.              
Saturday, Dec. 8    Elmhurst College    BELOIT    4:00 p.m.              
Saturday, Dec. 29    Augustana College    BELOIT    7:00 p.m.              
Thursday, Jan. 3    Rockford College    BELOIT    7:00 p.m.              
Saturday, Jan. 12    St. Norbert College*    De Pere, WI    4:00 p.m.              
Tuesday, January 15    Lawrence University*    BELOIT    7:30 p.m.              
Friday, Jan. 18    Monmouth College*    BELOIT    7:30 p.m.              
Saturday, Jan. 19    Grinnell College*    BELOIT    4:00 p.m.              
Friday, Jan. 25    Knox College*    Galesburg, IL    7:30 p.m.              
Saturday, Jan. 26    Monmouth College*    Monmouth, IL    4:00 p.m.              
Saturday, Feb. 2    Ripon College*    Ripon, WI    4:00 p.m.              
Tuesday, Feb. 5    Carroll College*    Waukesha, WI    7:30 p.m.              
Friday, Feb. 8    Lake Forest College*    BELOIT    7:30 p.m.              
Saturday, Feb. 9    Illinois College*    BELOIT    4:00 p.m.              
Wednesday, Feb. 13    St. Norbert College*    BELOIT    7:30 p.m.              
Saturday, Feb. 16    Lawrence University*    Appleton, WI    4:00 p.m.              
Saturday, Feb. 23    Ripon College (*)    BELOIT    4:00 p.m.              

Wonder if it's Platteville's tournament.

Pat, I just noticed that he forgot to designate the last Ripon game as conference.

[sac]

I actually think the vast, vast majority of basketball coaches do not coach a second sport.

However, golf would be the easiest, I'd say, for those who double up.

Back when I played golf at Hope, 6 of the 7 MIAA golf coaches were the basketball coaches.  Thats not the case anymore where I think only 1 pulls the double duty. 

There used to be many coaches who took on 2 sports, Glenn Van Wieren coached soccer of all things way back in the 70's/early 80's.

Not sure whats changed, other than maybe higher budgets to allow for separate coaches for most sports.

[Dolph Stanley]

This decision is based in no small part part on President Burris' open dislike for athletics. He incorrectly believes that high level academics and a quality athletic department cannot coexist without compromising academics. Wheaton, IWU, Amherst and other top schools have proven otherwise. As an alum of Beloit and a generous donor to the college, I have tried to convince him at fund raising events that many of us in the alumni association strongly disagree with him.

The problem extends beyond MBB, as Beloit not to long ago had some of the premier womens' programs in DIII, but those programs to have fallen by the wayside. I think the new AD is motivated to improve things, and there are some indications that she is making slow progress, but to those who know and love the tradition of Beloit College basketball, the Burris/Youngblood years have been painful.

Beloit.

Augie Fan,  a couple of points I disagree with you on:

1)  Buriss is IMO not anti athletics.  In his time, the school has added the AD position, a full time assistant football coach, swim coach and continued to upgrade the facilities.  While he stayed with Youngblood too long, he did not hire him and was in a very touchy situation in trying to remove him.

2)  I challenge you to tell me which BC women's programs were among the nations elite.  Basketball had a nice run and actually won one game in the D3 tournament in the mid 90's before losing a great game to Eau Claire but the program had hit the skids by the time Burris arrived.  Can you name any other womens program that has enjoyed success at the national level?

3)  Beloit sports, other than basketball pre Youngblood, football for about a 5-6 year period in the early 90's, womens basketball for a 3-4 year period and women's tennis through the efforts of Bog Hodge have rarely been competitive in the MWC let alone on a national level.  THis year, conference championships were won in mens soccer and womens volleyball so at least a few things are moving in the right direction.