MBB: Midwest Conference

[The Roop]

C'Mon Pat, don't lie. Everybody already knows that my blog is your home page. LOL.

In an unrelated topic the D3 Final Four is already fixed. Hope/Calvin and Wooster/Wittenberg. I know this because the Wyndham Roanoke is already sold out.

[fightintitan2006]

That was an akward exchange between Pat and Roop...

Anyhow, on to some basketball news. I was digging around on the internet and as a system fan, happend to check Redlands website to see if they would still be running it this year (their new coach is the womens coach at their school, so I have no idea). I hope they do, as their 2007-08 says Grinnell will be visiting them on January 6.

Alos noticed that Ripon has its roster posted and Vehantre Brown isnt on it. Another poster (LU_nut maybe) and myself had previosly listed him as a potential breakout star this season...big loss for the Red Hawks.

[The Roop]

Not sure why you think it was an awkward exchange but ok.

This is purely speculation but I did overhear some talk in the stands last year that Vehantre may transfer to be closer to home. The family strikes me as good folks so whatever he is doing this year I wish him the best.

[pgkevin]

How does a team that finished fourth in the conference last year, advanced to the championship game, and returns pretty much everyone qualify as...the field...grouped with Knox, Beloit, IC and Monmouth???

[The Roop]

Similarly how does St. Norbert come out of nowhere when most people are expecting them to be a serious contender this year

Hopefully a couple teams really step up and take control or the MWC could wind up being very average this year.

[Amos Lawrence]

I wouldn't say most people believe SNC to be a serious contender...they always have hard nosed kids with solid basketball IQ, but in recent years haven't had any offense to put them over the top. Last Year they were 3-9 on the road. Their only road win against an MWC tournament team was at Lake Forest by 1.  Also, they were swept by Ripon, Lawrence, and Carroll (the MWCs top dogs in most recent years). To be a contender in the MWC you have to be able to go on the road and protect home court against the top teams, something they weren't able to do last year.

Negatativity aside, I always have liked they way SN plays, especially on defense. But until they prove they belong in discussion among the top, I can't say they are a serious contender. 

[Dolph Stanley]

I wouldn't say most people believe SNC to be a serious contender...they always have hard nosed kids with solid basketball IQ, but in recent years haven't had any offense to put them over the top. Last Year they were 3-9 on the road. Their only road win against an MWC tournament team was at Lake Forest by 1.  Also, they were swept by Ripon, Lawrence, and Carroll (the MWCs top dogs in most recent years). To be a contender in the MWC you have to be able to go on the road and protect home court against the top teams, something they weren't able to do last year.

Negatativity aside, I always have liked they way SN plays, especially on defense. But until they prove they belong in discussion among the top, I can't say they are a serious contender. 

SNC returns 5 of their top six from last years team that finished 8-8 in the MWC and gets an All Conference transfer from Beloit.  They return their coach who is a huge difference maker and while I know little of their recruiting class if its anything like his first (top two scorers last year were Freshman ) it should be one that contributes.

If SNC is not considered a strong contender, please explain why Lawrence who finished at 9-7 last year and has about the same number of talented players returning but must replace Tharp should be? 

Editors Note:  Freshman = First Year Student for those of you at Beloit.

[cardinalfanrochelle]

MCW question ,
                       If a player transfer happens within a conference,doesn't the transfer player have to sit a year?Some conferences have that rule does MCW?

[Amos Lawrence]

Dolph,
With three conference championships in a row coupled with three solid NCAA appearances, an argument for Lawrence holds more water than does one for a team like st. norberts that has one conf. title in the last 27 years coming in 2001-02. But I wasn't necessarily lobbying for Lawrence either way.  Generally speaking, if a teams top players are frosh, its usually not a good sign in terms of talent and depth. And like I said, Norbs got swept by Lawrence, Ripon, and Carroll, and split with Grinell. Beating up on the cellar of the MWC doesn't earn you much respect. I wasnt trying to bash them, in fact, it wouldn't surprise me if they got to the tourny this year. But until they do....

[Greek Tragedy]

How does a team that finished fourth in the conference last year, advanced to the championship game, and returns pretty much everyone qualify as...the field...grouped with Knox, Beloit, IC and Monmouth???

It was probably a mistake to have them bunched in with the field since they have had recent success lately.  I think they are in there because it seems like the "north" teams get a little more pub.

Similarly how does St. Norbert come out of nowhere when most people are expecting them to be a serious contender this year

Hopefully a couple teams really step up and take control or the MWC could wind up being very average this year.

I think Amos Lawrence explained it pretty well. 

MCW question ? ? ?,
                       If a player transfer happens within a conference,doesn't the transfer player have to sit a year?Some conferences have that rule does MCW?

The WIAC has that rule if you transfer after your sophomore year.  I think the MWC goes school by school...not sure though.

[Dolph Stanley]

Dolph,
With three conference championships in a row coupled with three solid NCAA appearances, an argument for Lawrence holds more water than does one for a team like st. norberts that has one conf. title in the last 27 years coming in 2001-02.

Put quite simply, no it doesn't.  If Briar was still playing and Tharp still coaching then maybe it would but one of the funny things about college sports is that players finish school, coaches move on and teams at or near the top change.

Prior to Tharp, LU was a not even a blip on the MWC radar when it came to competing for championships.  Perhaps what he has built will live on and perhaps it won't but to say that because they were the dominant team in the MWC from 03-06 somehow means that the team they put on the floor this year will gain any advantage from the recent past holds no water.  Ask folks at Beloit about how quickly a program that has been at or near the top for years can crumble.

Lawrence appears to have the nucleus for a very strong club  but using your own line of reasoning, they were a combined 1-6 last year against the four teams that did make the MWC tourney so they will have to improve against the top teams in much the same way that a SNC will if they hope to compete for the title. 

[Gregory Sager]

MCW question ? ? ?,
                       If a player transfer happens within a conference,doesn't the transfer player have to sit a year?Some conferences have that rule does MCW?

The WIAC has that rule if you transfer after your sophomore year.  I think the MWC goes school by school...not sure though.

The CCIW has that rule. All transfers from one CCIW school to another have to sit out one full academic year from the time of transfer for any sport in which the student-athlete has participated at his or her old school. However, it's not a D3-wide rule. It varies from league to league. As OS indicated, the WIAC's rule is more relaxed than the CCIW's. The MWC might not have an intra-conference transfer rule at all. Unlike the CCIW, the MWC doesn't have its constitution and bylaws accessible on the conference website, so I don't know whether it has this rule or not.

[Amos Lawrence]

Dolph,
17 players on LU's roster have multiple MWC conference and NCAA tournament game experiences. Your saying that doesn't give them any advantage over a non-experienced squad which hasn't had any of those experiences? How many times do teams get the benefit of the doubt (right or wrong) because they are more experienced? And how many players on Norberts roster can say they have had similar experiences to players on Carroll, Ripon, Lu, Lake Forest, and Grinnell's?

No doubt Lawrence will have to improve to make a title run, but I never said they were going to in the first place.  Somehow this turned into LU vs. SNC.  All I began with was that Norberts hasn't done much to prove they are a serious contender. I never even mentioned LU contending for the title (however, for obvious homer reasons, I think they will), which would have made your point that Larry went 1-6 (which was actually 2-5) against the tourny teams valid.

[d3bbfan]

There is no rule in the MWC that requires a student athelete who transfers within the conference to sit out for a year. Dowden can play this year with SNC.

[The Roop]

Since Dowden transferred for the purpose of winning a conference championship it is in his best interest that it happens this year or he may have been better off staying put. There does seem to be a conference wide youth movement in progress so why can't St. Norbert do it this time around ??

It's also worth noting that Beloit will be one of the more experienced teams in 08-09 as Coach Vraney didn't exactly inherit a bare cupboard. It would be a stretch to say they will make the tournament this season but I wouldn't fall over dead either. I've also heard that this years recruiting class has a couple nice surprises in it. Beyond that I'm not saying anything.............