MBB: Midwest Conference

[wc2viking]

Nice start for DePagter at Lawrence.  Two wins in Chicago to start the season.  Dekker scores 14 points off the bench tonight.  I know there were questions about his defense last year, but it would be great to have that kind of scoring off the bench this year.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Chamberlin kicked Wartburg's ass tonight, scoring 35 in the two point victory.  The threes weren't falling, but Davey Arsenault did get 15 assists.  Apparently the hot shot freshman hasn't picked up the system all that well yet; he's not getting much PT.

[Greek Tragedy]

Wow, he usually doesn't score that much and seems to be the only guy making an effort to rebound! lol 

[The Roop]

According to the box score beloit scored 8 points in the second half, missed their first 22 shots of the second half and hot 3-28 including 0-16 from beyond the arc in the second half.  Ouch.

Had I not seen them go on similar streaks last year I probably wouldn't believe it, but when they go cold the whole team is cold.

72-56 on Saturday was an improvement but they are still getting killed in the paint by the tune of 46-20. All other stats were pretty much even. Could be a rough year even when Horton comes back if they don't solve that problem.

[larry_u]

Weekend Scores:

November 16

#10 Capital 76  Illinois College 53
Grinnell 137, UW-Eau Claire 132
St. Norbert 71  Concordia (IL) 54
UW-Platteville 75 Beloit 23
Lawrence 87  Dominican 72

November 17

Edgewood 72  Beloit 56
Lawrence 72  Concordia (IL) 68
#3 UW-Stevens Point 105  Carroll 72
Central Missouri State 87  Monmouth 60
Dominican 58, St. Norbert 52 (OT)
Illinois College 91, St. Joseph's (NY) 63
Grinnell 105  Wartburg 103
Uni. of Chicago 70, Lake Forest 59

November 18
Ohio Wes 56 Lake Forest 42

[systemfan86]

Chamberlin kicked Wartburg's ass tonight, scoring 35 in the two point victory.  The threes weren't falling, but Davey Arsenault did get 15 assists.  Apparently the hot shot freshman hasn't picked up the system all that well yet; he's not getting much PT.

Grinnell 'started' three first years in the game. Three first years played double digit minutes. That's a very good sign for the Pioneers. The young'ins (especially the bigs) are playing right away. That can only help this team.

How about Chamberlain's five steals and three for three from three in the Saturday game? Way to go big guy!

Two wins in two reasonably tight games.  Nice start. Given the fact that Wartburg dropped Aurora, beating Wartburg at their place is a good win.

[Sea of Red]

I had heard that Coach A was looking for ways to utilize the big guy more and take advantage of his unique (for this team) gifts.  Maybe this is the first evidence of that approach.  I hope so.  Having a big guy take some of the heat off of Grotberg and Little A will help the team, and if that gives them more dangerous shifts all the better.

Did anyone see the Wartburg tourney?  Also, did anyone see the Stevens-Point v. Carroll game? 

[d3bbfan]

well after seeing both of BC's 1st 2 games I only have a couple of things to say. If BC has a chance of winning any games this year they have to shoot he ball better. I really thought after watching them shoot in practice a few times that they would be a decent outside team. well that didn't happen this weekend.

And if Horton isn't going to play much because he's so injury prone then Wimmer really needs to step it up. At 6'8" and big body like he is he plays way way to soft and small. They have absolutly zero inside presence.

Bysted had a decent game vs EC the 2nd night. He is going to have to be the go to guy. He's quick and finishes very well around the basket.

I think they need to take the ball to the hoop more and try and draw more fouls...especially if the outside shot isnt there.

Good luck to em on Tues. Can't make that one so hopefully get some reports form someone there.

[systemfan86]

Acknowledging that it is wa-a-a-y early, does beating Watburg at their tournament count as a road win? The Knights have been a team that wins 75% of their games over the past couple years. If this counts as a road win for GC, that could come in handy later in the year figuring out the QOWI for a team like Grinnell. You need wins against good teams on the road to make that number attractive.

(See it's only taken two or three years for me to figure that calculation out...) 

[Greek Tragedy]

Also, did anyone see the Stevens-Point v. Carroll game? 

I was at the Point/Carroll game.  I'm a Point fan, so my view is through purple and gold glasses.  Several Point fans did have game reviews over in the WIAC board, so help yourself over there...

Carroll looked good to start, but then Point started raining 3s and then it was lights out for the Pioneers.  Ladwig and Mueller will be the engine for Carroll this year.  Mueller played pretty well, IMO.  I haven't seen any other MWC teams, but if Grinnell is the same and Lawrence bounces back from their disappointing year, Carroll will be fighting for a conference tourney bid without Drury or Colomy.

Even without Jon Krull, Point is real tough, especially when they shoot the ball as well as they did.  Grinnell was 20-50 from 3-land in their game against Eau Claire and put up 137 points.  Point was 18-26 from 3-land and put up 105, taking 25 less shots.  It's hard to gauge Carroll on just one game against a superior opponent, IMO.

Acknowledging that it is wa-a-a-y early, does beating Watburg at their tournament count as a road win? The Knights have been a team that wins 75% of their games over the past couple years. If this counts as a road win for GC, that could come in handy later in the year figuring out the QOWI for a team like Grinnell. You need wins against good teams on the road to make that number attractive.

(See it's only taken two or three years for me to figure that calculation out...) 

I don't see why it wouldn't be a road game.  It's a good road win because, though Wartburg did have a down year in 2006-2007, they did beat Aurora (NathCon's top dog) the night before.  I think part of the reason why Wartburg's overall record the last couple of years has been so good is because, top to bottom, the IIAC really isn't that good.  It's usually been Wartburg or Buena Vista ruling the perch.  Of course, last year, Loras won the league.  Anyway, I'll probably get burned for that comment on the IIAC, but whatever! lol.  BTW, you can take another two or three years figuring out the NEW calculation that was formally the QOWI! 

[augiefan]

When, if ever, has a MWC team gone through a winless season. Based on Beloit's opening weekend, it looks like they have a shot at getting an 0 for 2007-08 record. If Roop or the other BC faithful see a team they can beat, who might that be? Vraney has an incredible job cut out for him getting BC back to even mediocrity. I wish him well but know the patience of some Buc fans will be tested.

[Gregory Sager]

Acknowledging that it is wa-a-a-y early, does beating Watburg at their tournament count as a road win?

Yes. Wartburg and Grinnell are not only in the same NCAA administrative region (Region #4), they're also within 200 miles of each other.

When, if ever, has a MWC team gone through a winless season. Based on Beloit's opening weekend, it looks like they have a shot at getting at 0 for 2007-08 record. If Roop or the other BC faithful see a team they can beat, who might that be? Vraney has an incredible job cut out for him getting BC back to even mediocrity. I wish him well but know the patience of some Buc fans will be tested.

Your question is very difficult to answer, augiefan. Beloit won only one game during the entire 1997-98 season, an 82-76 win over Illinois College. The Blueboys went winless in MWC play in 1994-95, but they won three non-conference games. Grinnell went winless in MWC play and won only one game overall in 1987-88. Other teams that went winless in the MWC only included Chicago (1986-87 -- the U of C's media guide insists that the Maroons went 8-6 in MWC play that year, however), Illinois College (1984-85 -- the Blueboys won five non-conference games), Grinnell (1981-82, 1979-80, and 1976-77), Lawrence (1961-62 and 1956-57), Ripon (1937-38 and 1933-34), Cornell (1932-33), Hamline (1929-30 and 1924-25), and Coe (1928-29). Since none of those schools except for Chicago and Illinois C. have year-by-year records, and the MWC archives are incomplete, it's impossible to identify the last MWC team to go an entire season without winning a game.

Without casting any sort of judgment sight unseen upon this season's Beloit squad, I can say that part of the problem with identifying what would appear to be likely wins for the Buccaneers, or at least strong possibilities for wins, is that the lack of a full double round-robin in the MWC means that this year Beloit won't get to face the #9 preseason pick, Knox, in Flood Arena. The other part of the problem is that Clarke College has yet to divulge the schedule and participants for the Crusaders' holiday tournament, meaning that Beloit fans really have no idea at this point whom the Bucs may be facing in Dubuque over the holidays.

[systemfan86]

Also, did anyone see the Stevens-Point v. Carroll game? 

I was at the Point/Carroll game.  I'm a Point fan, so my view is through purple and gold glasses. 
...
Carroll looked good to start, but then Point started raining 3s and then it was lights out for the Pioneers. 

Hmmm, when they're shooting threes like that, does the crowd break into "Purple Rain"?

I think part of the reason why Wartburg's overall record the last couple of years has been so good is because, top to bottom, the IIAC really isn't that good. 

BTW, you can take another two or three years figuring out the NEW calculation that was formally the QOWI! 

DAMN! 

Oh, and if the calculation doesn't care why they had a good winning percentage, then neither do I... 

[Mr. Ypsi]

The replacement for QOWI does measure WHY their winning percentage is so good (not perfectly, but better than QOWI did).  It combines OWP (opponents' winning percentage) with OOWP (opponents' opponents' winning percentage).  So beating up on weak teams with good records will help your OWP, but if will be 'found out' in the OOWP.

[systemfan86]

The replacement for QOWI does measure WHY their winning percentage is so good (not perfectly, but better than QOWI did).  It combines OWP (opponents' winning percentage) with OOWP (opponents' opponents' winning percentage).  So beating up on weak teams with good records will help your OWP, but if will be 'found out' in the OOWP.

Damn! Damn!

OK, I'm clueless again. I thought it was the type of win that will help, and while it won't hurt - all wins are better than losses - it still might not help as much as it would have last year...

Sigh