MBB: Midwest Conference

[Put up a #]

One could state, without fear of contradiction, that Grinnell has had great success lately. Certainly they have won the Midwest Conference as often as anyone in the last 10-12 years, and 3 of the last 7. And in these last years had some teams that might have made a little noise in the NCAA tournament (but didn't), but for some bad luck. Critical personnel losses to some terrific teams (seasons) has intervened. Malinowski in '03, Heiser in '04, Grotberg and about 4 other guys last year.

I thought this would be the year. Then David A. and Chamberlain go down. If not, we'd have a different conference leader right now.

While Lawrence, and Carroll have earned well deserved national respect for their post season performances, I believe that there is currently NO COACH in the MWC with as many conference championships as Grinnell's Dave Arseneault in the last 10-15 years. Come on guys, winning the conference is still an honor.

Concerning the assist record by Davey A., I was there. Anyone who questions anything about the record simply didn't see the game. He did what a point guard is supposed to do. He hit the open man perfectly. And if the opposing team hadn't decided to defend Chamberlain by hanging on him when he got the ball down low Dave might have gotten 50 assists.

Grinnell wins championships, does it with a unique style and flair, does it with guys on the floor who throw everything they have into their time, however limited, draws controversy, draws the biggest crowds at away games (usually), and draws positive exposure for themselves and the MWC as a whole.

Have a great weekend in Wisconsin guys.      

[The Roop]

After giving up a 15 point lead Beloit got an improbable tip in at the buzzer from Derrick Lovgren to defeat Lake Forest 67-65. The lighted backboards really paid for themselves tonight.

[bucs r bust]

I really didn't see this coming from the Bucs!  But I guess I should have since just about every year previous Beloit finally decides to start playing with about 6 games to go in the year.  The freshmen (first years) really stepped it up tonight.  Beloit played really well...except for their 3-4 minute lull in each half where they decide to shoot and play defense like Grinnell.   Sorry GC fans I had to throw that in there . 

Watch out tomorrow BlueBoys, the Bucs are on a roll!  Oh yeah and it's Hall of Honor weekend...just an extra bonus!  It would be nice to sweep a weekend for once!

[Greek Tragedy]

Big upsets last night.

February 8 
Illinois College 91, at Ripon 82
Knox 65, at St. Norbert 59
at Beloit 67, Lake Forest 65
at Carroll 126, Grinnell 114
at #23 Lawrence 105, Monmouth 68

Went to the Carroll v Grinnell game.

All I have to say is that THE ANNOUNCER IS WAY TOO LOUD AND OBNOXIOUS.  THREEE, HEE, HEE, HEE, HEE, HEE.  Honestly.  Quiet down.  I realize you're trying to get the crowd into the game, but that was way too much.  I seriously had a headache after the game.

Game notes to follow later today.

[jeffdc]

Big upsets last night.

at Carroll 126, Grinnell 114

Went to the Carroll v Grinnell game.

All I have to say is that THE ANNOUNCER IS WAY TOO LOUD AND OBNOXIOUS.  THREEE, HEE, HEE, HEE, HEE, HEE.  Honestly.  Quiet down.  I realize you're trying to get the crowd into the game, but that was way too much.  I seriously had a headache after the game.

Got to agree on the announcer - when I can hear him over the MWC announcers through my tinny little computer speakers, well, geez.

Hope Old School can offer some additional insight on the game. GC started off strong, then CC slowed it down and the gap was an amazing 57-42 at the half. I really thought GC had a chance when they narrowed it to 3 in the 2nd half, but then foul trouble and cold shooting shut them down. I've always thought CC was the team best matched to GC's rapid style, but after their game in Grinnell earlier in the season, I wasn't prepared for last night's game. A different team.

Hats off to R. J. Rowe, who had a great game. Ahmed Idrissa also had some nice shots. Hard to follow the cross court action via MWCTV, though. Sometimes the camera lagged.

Best of luck to GC today with SNC!

[Gregory Sager]

GC will never be an 'athletic' school. It's a top 10 liberal arts school. That's its claim to fame.

One form of identity doesn't preclude the other, Jeff. Cases in point: Williams and Amherst. They're top 10 liberal arts schools who are, very definitely, "athletic" schools in terms of winning consistently across the board (as reflected in the Sears Cup standings). And, while they are research universities rather than liberal arts schools, the breadth of success of such UAA schools as Rochester, Chicago, and Wash U indicate that it is quite possible to do well in D3 athletics without having a traditional identity as a jock factory.

[jeffdc]

GC will never be an 'athletic' school. It's a top 10 liberal arts school. That's its claim to fame.

One form of identity doesn't preclude the other, Jeff. Cases in point: Williams and Amherst. They're top 10 liberal arts schools who are, very definitely, "athletic" schools in terms of winning consistently across the board (as reflected in the Sears Cup standings). And, while they are research universities rather than liberal arts schools, the breadth of success of such UAA schools as Rochester, Chicago, and Wash U indicate that it is quite possible to do well in D3 athletics without having a traditional identity as a jock factory.

True. And GC competes with Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, and others for student/athletes.  But the small schools you mentioned do have some advantages re: sports that GC doesn't: they're what's been traditionally called prep school, pulling from east coast prep schools with strong athletic traditions. And they are in fact on the east coast. GC pulls a national student body, unlike some of the other schools in MWC that are primarily regional. One of the things that System ball has done is make many of those top student/athletes actually consider GC, even though it isn't on one of the coasts. That's all to the good. Arsenault has built a bball tradition in GC from scratch (GC has always had a strong winning traditiion in swimming and cross country). Over the past 4-5 yrs I've watched as he's built on that tradition, attracting the kinds of kids that can make it academically at GC and do well on the court. System ball is what attracts them. We had decades of 'traditional' ball and it didn't take us anywhere. I think because of the combination of tough academics, location, and GC's own unique culture, System ball just works for us.

[larry_u]

Despite all the press, Grinnell hasn't really had much success, but maybe that's ok.  Success in D3 athletics doesn't really provide the college with anything that it doesn't have already.

Thoughts?

Grinnell has won conference championships according to the MWC website in 96, 2001, 2003, 2007.

Also winning 4 championships since 1990 are Ripon and Lawrence. 

No team has seen more success than any of these 3 teams. 

wc2viking, you use Carroll as an example of a team with success, but they haven't won a single conference championship in that span.  In fact, Carroll (although they are winning right now at halftime of their game with Grinnell) has NEVER won a MWC championship!

I will take Grinnell's fun and gun Championships over anything these other teams do.

The big question is how often has Grinnell gone deep into the playoffs.  Yes Grinnell has 4 MWC championships, but how many NCAA tournaments has Grinnell gone to?  How many NCAA games has Grinnell won?  Lawrence and Carroll have gone to the NCAA tournament and advanced deeper then any MWC teams have.  A MWC regular season championship is nice, but when you can't consistantly win the MWC tournament on your own floor, like has happened to Grinnell, while Lawrence for example is 4-4 in MWC tournament championships to go with their regular season championships, then something is wrong.

The circus just does not play well in the post season.  Its a fact.

[larry_u]

Big upsets last night.

February 8 
Illinois College 91, at Ripon 82
Knox 65, at St. Norbert 59
at Beloit 67, Lake Forest 65
at Carroll 126, Grinnell 114
at #23 Lawrence 105, Monmouth 68

Went to the Carroll v Grinnell game.

All I have to say is that THE ANNOUNCER IS WAY TOO LOUD AND OBNOXIOUS.  THREEE, HEE, HEE, HEE, HEE, HEE.  Honestly.  Quiet down.  I realize you're trying to get the crowd into the game, but that was way too much.  I seriously had a headache after the game.

Game notes to follow later today.

Well I think there is no doubt now, it will come down to Lawrence vs Carroll for the MWC title again.  Feels like 2004 all over again....

[Greek Tragedy]

I would have to say, it was a very entertaining game in Waukesha last night.  I was hyping Grinnell's crazy style to my friend and he tagged along with me.  I did note that Grinnell scored a paltry 55 points, so if it wasn't a "classic," at least I had an "out"! 

As mentioned, Grinnell came out fast and Carroll coughed the ball up a couple of times and missed some layups.  At the beginning, Carroll seemed to get their passing down, but completely missed a couple of gimmes to get them on the scoreboard.  Bobby Long, our favorite, missed his first three or four 3-pointers and with no scores at one end, Carroll was able to capitalize on the other.  With Carroll up by one, a combination of cold shooting for Grinnell and fast break finishes from the HOST Pioneers, they went on a nice run to take a decent 57-42 lead into intermission.

Things got fun after the break.  My friend and I upgraded to courtside seats and we witnessed a barrage of 3s from the likes of R.J. Roewe, Grotberg and Bobby Long to get them even at 85 around the 10 minute mark.  Roewe hit about 4 in row right in front of us while Long got on track and nailed some as well.  Grinnell had several chances to take the lead but failed to capitalize on their opportunities.  It must have taken a lot out of Grinnell to fight back because cold shooting returned and all of a sudden Carroll was up 13 with around 5 minutes to play.  Grinnell did get it down to 6 a couple of times in the closing minutes, but Carroll hit their free throws to seal the deal.

Bobby Long and John Grotberg are very good players and I think they could play in any system.  Little A is a little irratic and he makes the same move every time.  He dribbles in with his back to the basket, fakes to the outside and then turns into the lane.  Carroll must have gotten wind of this because another defender would just come over and poke the ball away when he cut inside.  Arseneault coughed it up 7 times.

Once Bobby Long got on track, he really hit some big shots and Grotberg seemed like he was at the line constantly...kudos to not just launching 3s all day and getting to the basket.  I tell ya, R.J. Roewe has the weirdest release.  Everytime he shot it, it didn't look like it was going to go in.  He should've stayed on the floor like Grotberg and Long when he had the hot hand.

Carroll played well overall, though I'm not sure why Mueller was trying to dribble.  Stand underneath the basket and wait for the long ball.  Ladwig had a quite 19, most from the line, while Thompson and Zimmerman had solid nights.  Colin Thorpe impressed me and should've played more because his athleticism really helped. 

Like I said, very entertaining match and my friend had a great time considering the 2nd half one of the most exciting he's seen in person.  Congrats to Carroll on avenging their loss down in Iowa. 

Carroll 126, Grinnell 114

[Titan Q]

GC will never be an 'athletic' school. It's a top 10 liberal arts school. That's its claim to fame.

One form of identity doesn't preclude the other, Jeff. Cases in point: Williams and Amherst. They're top 10 liberal arts schools who are, very definitely, "athletic" schools in terms of winning consistently across the board (as reflected in the Sears Cup standings). And, while they are research universities rather than liberal arts schools, the breadth of success of such UAA schools as Rochester, Chicago, and Wash U indicate that it is quite possible to do well in D3 athletics without having a traditional identity as a jock factory.

True. And GC competes with Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, and others for student/athletes.  But the small schools you mentioned do have some advantages re: sports that GC doesn't: they're what's been traditionally called prep school, pulling from east coast prep schools with strong athletic traditions. And they are in fact on the east coast.

Hometowns of the starters for Amherst and Williams this year...

Amherst
Andrew Olson - San Diego, CA
Brian Baskauskas - Palo Alto, CA
Fletcher Walters - Ann Arbor, MI
Kevin Hopkins - Greenfield Center, NY
Brandon Jones - Hopatcong, NJ

Williams
Chris Shalvoy - Rochester, NY
Blake Schultz - Atherton, CA
Kevin Snyder - Littleton, CO
Matt Weisbrot - Gledwyne, PA
Joe Geoghegan - Cape Elizabeth, ME

[wc2viking]

Thanks to the Grinnell folks for their thoughtful responses.  As several others have already pointed out, though, Amherst and Williams have successful athletics even with their vaunted "Top 10" status.  (As a sidenote, I will say that everyone I've met from Grinnell has been friendly and down-to-earth.  I must admit that I can't say the same thing about Williams and a few other schools from the east coast.)  It's not like the rest of the MWC is a bunch of slouches in academics, either.

I also think your selling the athletes at Grinnell short.  Grotberg and others might be "moderately talented", but they're quite talented by MWC standards.  If Arseneault would make a few adjustments to the "system" from year-to-year, he might be able to get more out of his players.

Larry_U made an interesting point, though.  Why doesn't GC's system work in the playoffs?  They're 0 for whatever in the NCAA tournament.  It seems like teams that have never seen the system would be the easiest victims, but it hasn't worked out.  Strange.

[wc2viking]

Quick post about the LU-MC game from last night.  Basically, the box score tells the story.  MC started off impressively and stayed with LU for about 12 minutes.  MC played spirited defense and hit some tough 3-pointers to keep the game close.  Then, LU's size and experience took over as LU went on a run to lead by 18 at halftime.  The second half began the same way and Lawrence quickly ran out to a 30+ point lead and cruised from there.  The last 10 minutes of the game gave LU a chance to get the bench in.  Of course, it's difficult to judge when the game is already decided, but the future looks promising for LU.  In particular, Eric Borresen looked impressive.  He's 6'8, has good hands, and seemed pretty nimble inside.  Hopefully, he can take over the inside after Hurley graduates.

MC did play hard the entire game. I'm a Vershaw fan from his days at UW, so I hope he can get the team headed in the right direction next year.

[Greek Tragedy]

Why doesn't GC's system work in the playoffs?  They're 0 for whatever in the NCAA tournament. 

Up until a couple of years ago when Lawrence went to the Elite 8 and Carroll did well last year, I wouldn't say the MWC had an outstanding record in the NCAAs.  Though winning the MWC gets you into the NCAAs, the MWC usually got a low seed and faced  a pretty good opponent on the road.  Lawrence had a very good run (success-wise) for about three years or so and Carroll last year, but other than that...

[The Roop]

Nice Award Ceremony for Bill Knapton today, I'm glad the webcast covered it as I couldn't make the trip.

Unfortunately the Bucs forgot to leave the locker room for the second half and lost 65-50 to IC. It really wasn't that close but it sounds better.