MBB: Midwest Conference

[Wydown Blvd.]

system error - the ncaa d3 record taken into account for the national tournament (someone correct me if I'm wrong)

hopefan - I know you're a SLIAC follower, so I respect your opinion. Especially considering the 19 NCAA game factor... with that in mind, slip-ups and underrating teams are more costly.

For those not familiar with the SLIAC, Fontbonne didn't have to play regular season SLIAC champs Webster in conference tourney play to make it into the NCAA tourney last year. Fontbonne is an above average d3 squad.

[fightintitan2006]

Titan AQ...Wheaton will be picked second behind Augie in the CCIW, if not first...book it

[Titan Q]

Titan AQ...Wheaton will be picked second behind Augie in the CCIW, if not first...book it

Augie is certainly a lock to be favored.

Elmhurst returns an All-American big guy - 6-9 Brent Ruch, who has a legitimate chance to be a 1st Team AA in '08-09.  In addition, they return 2nd Team All-CCIW performer Ryan Burks, who will be one of the CCIW's elite players this coming year.  The Bluejays also brought in a couple impact recruits and return a number of other key players.

Illinois Wesleyan's young '07-08 team beat Kent Raymond and Wheaton 3 times last year, returns a ton, and had a great recruiting year.

We'll see I guess.

[WLCALUM83]

Here's news on a prep player headed Carroll's direction:

http;//www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=775829

(Last item in "Other college choices.")

[John Gleich]

I think I may have just found the "system" of football... at least on the high school level:

http://a11offense.com/

All 11 players can be eligible.  ... at least in California, I'm not sure if this would be legal in other states.

[fightintitan2006]

Titan,

I didnt mean to imply that Wheaton wont be the 3rd or 4th best team in the CCIW, but in terms of the prepoll after having them advance further than Augie in the tourney last year and with an 1st team AA back, the coaches will certainly pick them 1 or 2 to apply the pressure.

[Gregory Sager]

Titan,

I didnt mean to imply that Wheaton wont be the 3rd or 4th best team in the CCIW, but in terms of the prepoll after having them advance further than Augie in the tourney last year and with an 1st team AA back, the coaches will certainly pick them 1 or 2 to apply the pressure.

Augie will be picked first. You can take that to the bank, ft06. Wheaton will either be picked second or third, and if you put a gun to my head and forced me to predict which one it'd be, I'd guess "third" -- especially if the rumor that PG Pat Bacon is returning to the Elmhurst roster after a one-year sabbatical turns out to be true.

If there's any gamesmanship going on among the coaches this fall -- as sometimes happens in the CCIW preseason poll, as you implied -- it'll mean that Wheaton will be picked second ahead of Elmhurst in order to ramp up the pressure on Wheaton coach Bill Harris prior to what will likely be his last season of coaching before he retires. It will not result in Wheaton being elevated over Augustana in the poll. Augie's now been the defending champion of the league for three years running; the three seniors that Augie is losing were the team's three biggest underachievers last season; and the other seven coaches in the league will unanimously want the ten-ton weight of being the preseason favorite to land squarely on Augie coach Grey Giovanine's turtlenecked shoulders. In fact, it'll be a major shock if any one of the other seven coaches doesn't list Augie first on his poll sheet when he faxes it in to the league office.

(Sorry for my contributing to this CCIW-flavored digression, MWC fans. Somewhere, Scottie's teeth are being ground down to nubs by the fact that this conversation is taking place in the MWC room. )

[from downtown]

Their non-conference schedule (with the exception of Augustana) is "Me and four other posters win those games." To borrow an Old School quote from a couple years ago.

Looks like Grinnell should be 7-1 at worst and possibly 8-0 heading into a home game against a likely top 10 Wheaton team. Could finally be that statement game so many system lovers/haters have been waiting for.

Man tough crowd. I feel like Rodney Dangerfield. At least MSOE doesnt have targets on their backs.

[Gregory Sager]

Their non-conference schedule (with the exception of Augustana) is "Me and four other posters win those games." To borrow an Old School quote from a couple years ago.

Looks like Grinnell should be 7-1 at worst and possibly 8-0 heading into a home game against a likely top 10 Wheaton team. Could finally be that statement game so many system lovers/haters have been waiting for.

Man tough crowd. I feel like Rodney Dangerfield. At least MSOE doesnt have targets on their backs.

You didn't post our quotes, but Tom Doebler and I both went out of our way to point out that MSOE is going to be a very tough game for Grinnell next year. And ft06 thinks that the Pioneers will lose to either MSOE or Ripon if that 7-1 scenario for Grinnell he mentioned is what actually comes to pass next winter. So it's not as though your Raiders are being subjected to the tug on the tie and the "I don't get any respect" routine.

[from downtown]

You didn't post our quotes, but Tom Doebler and I both went out of our way to point out that MSOE is going to be a very tough game for Grinnell next year. And ft06 thinks that the Pioneers will lose to either MSOE or Ripon if that 7-1 scenario for Grinnell he mentioned is what actually comes to pass next winter. So it's not as though your Raiders are being subjected to the tug on the tie and the "I don't get any respect" routine.

It was more The Roop quote that opened my eyes. I mean we were up by 17 at the half and coasted to a 20 point victory with Murphy and Meier both playing less than 20 minutes last season. Well Im sure Beloit has gotten better and I have idea as to the skill levels of various posters, it seems like a pretty big stretch to assume that a "w" for Beloit. I guess I shouldnt feel that much disrespect as I wouldnt consider Martin Luther, Benedictine, or Dubuque push overs either for Beloit either. I only really quoted the other one because you and Tom pointed it out.

[Gregory Sager]

You didn't post our quotes, but Tom Doebler and I both went out of our way to point out that MSOE is going to be a very tough game for Grinnell next year. And ft06 thinks that the Pioneers will lose to either MSOE or Ripon if that 7-1 scenario for Grinnell he mentioned is what actually comes to pass next winter. So it's not as though your Raiders are being subjected to the tug on the tie and the "I don't get any respect" routine.

It was more The Roop quote that opened my eyes. I mean we were up by 17 at the half and coasted to a 20 point victory with Murphy and Meier both playing less than 20 minutes last season. Well Im sure Beloit has gotten better and I have idea as to the skill levels of various posters, it seems like a pretty big stretch to assume that a "w" for Beloit. I guess I shouldnt feel that much disrespect as I wouldnt consider Martin Luther, Benedictine, or Dubuque push overs either for Beloit either. I only really quoted the other one because you and Tom pointed it out.

Well, it's the Roop, after all. You have to cut him some slack; he's a little distracted lately, what with having to scrounge up 14 bootlegged bottles of twelve-year-old Scotch in order to bribe the Beloit College board of directors into giving him the school's AD job.

[The Roop]

You also need to remember that I said Beloit would go winless because they didn't get any of the recruits they wanted. So between winless and 17-6 is where they will end up. I was just down playing a very good recruiting class at the time.

Cecil had a tendency to over schedule at times but it appears that Vraney has toned down the non-conference games this year. Which is a good thing for such a young team. Still scratching my head about playing Augustana though. That never became the rivalry many people wanted it to because Beloit was never that competitive. They'd win one here and there when Augie had an off year but I don't think this will be one of those years.

They haven't switched to The System but I got a heads up the other day about what their style of play will be like this year. Bring your track shoes. 

[Amos Lawrence]

Why wouldn't you want to play a tough non-conference schedule?  You don't gain much experience by playing to your level of competition.  To get any respect down the road, you'll have to eventually be able to beat the traditional "power" teams.  Better off gaining that experience while you're young, so a couple years down the line you can hopefully make a serious run at those types of team.

I strongly believe that playing a team like Augustana will tell you 5 times as much about what kind of team you have than beating up on a weaker non-conference team (I'm not trying to assume you meant that they should have a cake walk non-conference). 

Just a thought. 

[Greek Tragedy]

No offense to Beloit, but I'm not sure if there is such a thing as playing a "weaker nonconference" opponent.  With a team that has had recent poor results, like Beloit, there's a fine line between playing a "power" team and playing someone "more your level".  I played at small private college (not basketball) and believe me, we got nothing out of going down to Parkside or over to Oshkosh and getting spanked. 

Possibly starting out by playing "lower level" teams in traditional power conferences may be the way to go and work your way up to scheduling an Augustana or Whitewater later on.  When it's hard for Beloit to beat lower-level teams in their own conference, which is top-heavy in the first place, I don't think it's necessary to play the big boys in other "power" conferences to "get experience."  As much as you want to gain experience against tougher opponents and learn from your mistakes, you also want to experience WINNING. 

Being young and getting destroyed doesn't help the pyschological part of your team, imo. 

[Amos Lawrence]

You're right, they have plenty of opportunities to experience winning within their own conference.  Beloit has displayed the ability to play any MWC team tough.  Having a difficult non-conference schedule has the potential of being the X factor in having a solid MWC run.   

I too played at a small private school (basketball) and believe me, I would have much rather taken on the challenge of playing a team that would be considered better than my own, than go play a team we have a "legitimate" shot at winning.  Playing in that kind of fire exposes all of your weaknesses and identifies your strengths (only teams that are better than you will show you both in 40 minutes).     

Kids play D3 because they love to compete - being around the MWC, I think that most of the kids on that Beloit squad would rather have the opportunity to take on a Stevens Point than a Caltech (I know, I'm missing the point on what you mean by "lower level" teams).   

While getting thrashed might psychologically hurt a young team, think about how positive it would be if you went and got a win (or even hung in there and played them really tough).  There is nothing more encouraging for a squad searching for an identity than getting a huge upset win.   

Good teams (or teams trying to emulate those teams) challenge themselves with tough non-conference opponents.