FB: USA South Athletic Conference

[crazylegs33]

appreciate it allsky,
And we love you too. As I said earlier, CNU doesn't wish anyone to have a bad season. We just don't want them to do well against us.

Oh and Pat, can you tell me how many scholarship athletes CNU had that year? Thanks. Even if it was just a handful. That handful could have made a serious difference.

[narch]

i tried to stay out of this, but they sucked me in...

Oh and Pat, can you tell me how many scholarship athletes CNU had that year? Thanks. Even if it was just a handful. That handful could have made a serious difference.

chowan is just not a good example...they were really bad as a d3 without scholarships, so they clearly aren't going to get that much better with a handful of scholarship freshman infused with bad d3 upperclassmen - the difference between a bad d2 and a good d3 is NEVER that significant...chowan is one of the worst d2's in the country and cnu is a team that is typically in the top 50 (or so) d3's

want to see what a difference scholarships and public funding for stadiums, coaching staffs, academic facilities and the like makes?  look at unc-pembroke and contrast them to chowan...in year one uncp barely beat greensboro college with mostly freshman scholarship players in the first year of a d2 program...in year two they're 5-1 and would probably beat 50% (or more) of the d3 teams nationally....and they're not an upper tier d2 program by any stretch

according to an article that i read, about 1/3 of the football players at uncp are walk ons - they might have been able to compete for significant playing time at a private d3 school (or even a private d2 like wingate or catawba or lenoir rhyne or chowan), but have chosen to save money and attend a public d2 with the "hope" of landing a scholarship but the knowledge that if they don't, they're still saving money vs. those other places

Sorry I forgot, it's easy to tell a kid he is going to have to pay 14+ to go to CNU with his 3.2 GPA and 1100 SAT scores instead of accepting a full ride to HU, ODU, VT, UVA, W&M, JMU, UR to name a few or get a pretty hefty "academic scholarship" from some private D3 schools in this area to offset the schools cost.

i can't speak to any other school, but i'll give you this example of a "hefty academic scholarship" at MU:

3.7+ GPA, 1500+ SAT score = $17,000 Presidential Scholarship at MU (source)

even if this student got no academic scholarship money at CNU (unlikely), you're still looking at a situation where the two institutions are now on approximately equal footing financially ($30,000/year - $17,000 = $13,000) - now, go out and find me 30-40 legit d3 players that want to attend MU with those numbers...if you can do it, maybe you can become the next monarch coach

using your example of a 3.2/1100 student: this student would get $8,500 at MU - this is not an insignificant amount, but certainly it doesn't close that gap as much as you and others might think ($30,000 - $8,500 = $21,500)...for a 3.2/1100 student from VA, MU is over $5,000 per year more expensive ($20,000 over 4 years)...if everything else were equal, which do you think is going to be the choice? don't get me wrong, i think mu is a great value even at full cost, but simply put, there are people that won't even consider a private college/university because of the price tag...

this doesn't even mention the gap in facilities (athletic and academic) that occurs with state funding...when a private wants to build a new science building or residence hall, they have to spend years raising the $$$ it takes to do so...when a public school does the same thing, it is essentially just added to the budget (i know there is more to it, but it's MUCH easier than raising funds) - i understand that cnu must raise funds for athletic facilities, but let's face it...most donors get more excited about giving money for athletic facilities - i'm sure POMOCO wouldn't want to spend the $$$'s they have to help fund the cnu football stadium for say, a new building for the social science department...

those that bring up mount union must also realize that ohio is a different state, especially when compared to NC, and to a lesser degree, VA...for one, d3 schools are the rule rather than the exception (unlike NC)...kids and parents don't grow up EXPECTING to get a scholarship if they're going to play a sport in college (of the 51 4 year colleges and universities in nc, all but 7, by my calculation, have scholarship granting athletic departments...and 3 of those 7 are women's colleges) - you must also understand that the state university system in ohio is not as pervasive as it is in a state like NC...

lastly, you can throw the admissions standards argument out all you want...i know for fact that there have been (and possibly continue to be) student-athletes at cnu who don't come close to meeting the standards for non-athletes - clearly exceptions have been made in the past, and i wouldn't be shocked if they continue to be made...

anyone that doesn't at least acknowledge the advantage inherent to being a public in d3, especially in a conference made up entirely of private schools, is blinded by allegiance...as papi said though, it shouldn't be used as an excuse by other teams in the conference - like papi, i'm glad cnu is in the conference - clearly the level of football in this conference has been improved since cnu entered the mix and, for all of the advantages, cnu has never won an outright conference championship in football, right

and by the way, none of this has anything to do with the monarchs inability to run the ball or stop the run...they've only played private, non-scholarship schools to this point

[abnrgr]

Narch
I am glad you could not resist. I enjoyed reading it. Now tell me a story about Papi in Thailand.

[cnusfinest54]

Narch, I was recruited by a few private D3 schools and the first thing they tell you if you are a baller is don't worry about the sticker price because "we have ways of off setting the cost". The only reason I did not go to those schools is because recruiters sometimes lie and I was not about to chance paying 20+ a year for a education and go 3-7 on the field. Come to find out some of those recruiters were not lying and I KNOW of a kid that had less than a 2.8 coming out of high school scored maybe around 900 on the SAT and got a freaking academic scholarship to go to school. Private schools do not have to report things like public schools do so everyone has there own advantages.

It's college football and we do not have a conf. championship game so if you have one bad game you can end up tied for the title. But I do recall we got the automatic bid 3 out of the four years I played, and because we played a tough non conf. PRIVATE school schedule we still got a bid to the playoffs.

So to all the private school fans that are upset about CNU being a public school what is your excuse for your suspect records against other private schools?

[AdmiralPapi]

I personally think that the private schools have the advantage....It's like buying a car right?  The more expensive the better right???  With that perspective I can't believe any student athlete would rather go to a public school knowing they would be giving up a life a luxury that private schools can provide. 

Recruiters don't lie....everything my USCG recruiter promised me panned out ... how bout you abn, your recruiter lie to you???

[crazylegs33]

dearest narch,

1. Chowan is a great example if we are discussing the USA south. They were in the division and sucked. Kinda like that school methodist. Your argument was that CNU was cheaper, thereby making us more appealing to athletes and therefore better.

2. Your argument about UNC-pembroke proves my point. Even they couldn't get it done in year one (a task that CNU accomplished). Chowan still sucks. My point is that MU would still suck even if money wasn't an issue.

3. Here's a quote form you, "...about 1/3 of the football players at uncp are walk ons - they might have been able to compete for significant playing time at a private d3 school...". HU, NSU, ODU, W&M, U of R. That's 5 scholarship schools in close proximity to CNU who leach athletes away from CNU. And the list goes on...

4. your numbers dont add up. The scholarship you speak of covers 100% of the tuition. That was for $17,000 a semester. Get that education @ MU? sorry, it was MC back then.

5. Here's another quote from you, "using your example of a 3.2/1100 student: this student would get $8,500 at MU..." Problem here is that if the student didn't get those numbers he probably wouldn't get in to CNU. So he would have to go somewhere else as those numbers are well below par for CNU.

6. Quote from you again, "i know for fact that there have been (and possibly continue to be) student-athletes at cnu who don't come close to meeting the standards for non-athletes " Please cite examples. Otherwise, don't make up or assume things and play them off as facts.

Finally a quote from (you guessed it) you!, (regarding public v. private) "it shouldn't be used as an excuse by other teams in the conference" You sir are dead on!!! kudos to you! so why bring it up?? Why use it as a perennial excuse? When someone says something about CNU being good because they are hard working, tough and full of heart, why do you constantly bring up your hardships. Did Jackie Robinson Cry about being treated unfairly? Nope, he shut up a lot of people by succeeding even though the majority of society was against him. You think he got a fair shake? The great one find a way to get the job done no matter what.

And yes CNU has never won an outright title. Exactly how many times has MU represented the conference in the NCAA playoffs? I think I taste sour grapes. Good luck this season.

[Falcon2720]

CNU is a good d3 program that plays in a bad conference.  The USA South is a terrible football conference.  Nobody in the conference ever competes for national championships.  USA South Schools get crushed in the playoffs. 

USA South football playoff record is 3-8, never getting past the second round.

If the USA South wanted to get rid of CNU they could.  All the others schools would have to agree on it.  They got rid of Chowan 4 years ago.

[AdmiralPapi]

They're BACK!!!

[cnu63]

I think everyone should shut the hell up about this private vs public issue, its a waste of time and posts.  CNU has helped put the USA south on the map and has raised the playing level of the other teams in the conference.  I was at the CNU Shenadoah game lastnight and ill tell you this, every team in our conference plays us like its a playoff game and that is what conference play should be like every week.  The energy level is always cranked up a notch when CNU comes to town and all of you know that.  I played for CNU for 5 years and by no means have we ever thought we were just gonna roll right over everyone in the conference.  We realize the conference hates us but we take that hate as respect and i enjoyed every team that gave us their all everytime we played them.

One of the main reasons we are tough is because our coaching staff knows how to recruit, and by no means do they stay in the hampton roads area.  Our coaches are recruiting all over the state of virginia and sometimes other states.  Also, coach K is constantly trying to challenge us with top notch non-conference games.  If every team in our conference jumped on the tough scheduling band wagon, maybe our conference could gain some national respect from  division 3 football.

I would like to say one more thing: SHenadoah has stepped it up as far as the atmosphere up there. Like I said I made the 4hr drive yesterday and it was a great time.  Plenty of room to tailgate, the new turf looks amazing, facilities look amazing ( i remember the tents and port a potties from my sophmore year).  The fans at shenadoah were loud and plentiful and their sideline was hyped up.  It was a great football experience, it was wierd being on the other side though ( rather of been suited up).  CNU travelled with the band and the cheerleaders, which was awesome.  I reallly feel like the band/cheerleaders should always travel.  It just makes the atmosphere that much better.

So to end my argument, by having CNU in the USA south has made everyone step it up a notch.  Im not saying Shenadoah's upgrades are direct reflections from having us in the conference, but it is nice to see others in our conference taking their programs to the next level.

Can't wait til next sat, the home field talget will be off the hook.

GO CAPTAINS!

[cnu63]

Damn.....I meant TAILGATE

[cnu63]

by the way? i think i did alright with the pic ems, how bout it crazy legs?

[crazylegs33]

CNU63, you and Proudfightinscot got em 100%

So for the season I have

ProudFightingScot...................2
CNU63....................................1
Everybody Else.........................0

I wish I had started keeping track earlier in the season.

[Pat Coleman]

Oh and Pat, can you tell me how many scholarship athletes CNU had that year? Thanks. Even if it was just a handful. That handful could have made a serious difference.

But it didn't. As narch said, Chowan had three really bad classes and then a few 18-year-olds with partial scholarships. Yawn.

[PA_wesleyfan]

Oh and Pat, can you tell me how many scholarship athletes CNU had that year? Thanks. Even if it was just a handful. That handful could have made a serious difference.

But it didn't. As narch said, Chowan had three really bad classes and then a few 18-year-olds with partial scholarships. Yawn.

I know that Chowan wasn't a top flight team but they were a little more competitive until a certain coach decimated the roster by cutting some players and other quitting weren't they?

[crazylegs33]

Here's what's on tap for this week.

Greensboro @ CNU...........................CNU
Shenandoah(bye)
NCWC(bye)
Averett @ Methodist.........................Averett
Maryville @ Ferrum..........................Maryville

Not too many to pick this week.