FB: USA South Athletic Conference

[CNU85]

Great insight, Hudson. thanks for providing a perspective from someone who was in the locker room and on the field for CNU! My daughter trasnferred to CNU from JMU. She was an IB student in high school with a GPA of 3.76, graduated top 10% of class. JMU gave her 13 credit hours from high school. When she transferred to CNU, they only took 3 from high school and only 9 from JMU!

From CNU website
Stats - middle 50% GPA - 3.3 to 3.9
middle 50% SAT - 1140 to 1260

Also - out of the 8400 applications - 50% were accepted. The 1200 figure you gave is called the yield. That's the final number out of those accepted that actually enrolled.

[Captains811]

Thanks Pat and 85.

85 - Obviously, more than 1200 were accepted and some chose other schools for whatever reason and I should of done a better job explaining what was my main point;    The increasing demand for acceptance into the university and therefore the increase in the quality of the applicants, and how this has affected the ability of the coaches to get student athletes enrolled.

You may know better than me, but I am pretty sure that Pres. Trible wants to keep the size of each incoming Freshman class at about 1200, and total enrollment around 4800 - 5000.  I was trying to show that 8400 applicants applied for only 1200 spots and that is how I came to the 14% figure.  I am sure that the other USA South schools also have a number they look to accept every year and I would imagine that number in relation to the number of applicants they receive is nowhere near 14%.

Where did you see the 50% accepted figure?  The numbers I gave were from a earlier story in the Daily Press.

CNU applications for fall 2010:

•Number of applications: 8,426
•Number of applications in 2009: 8,400
•Freshman class size: 1,220
•Total enrollment, 2009-10: 4,952
•Average GPA for Class of 2013: 3.64
•Expected average GPA for Class of 2014: 3.7

Sources: Christopher Newport University, State Council of Higher Education for Virginia

[abnrgr]

Captains811

Welcome. It's always good to hear from a guy with dust on his boots or somebody that was there.

Succinct and thoughtful analysis of what I was fumbling for. Somebody said it earlier a couple of years ago (perhaps Pat C) but if you recruit 100 football players you got 10% of your enrollment. Or words to that effect.

When the administration decides to lower that number to get "students" instead of student athletes you just make it harder to play.  So what would be the difference for CNU (or any school) that gets the number of apps they get and they sign 100 guys to play. Their standards being a little lower will not kill the schools bottom line.

the non athlete student will have an equally persuasive argument but if they want to get rid of football or some sport just have the guts to do it instead bleeding coaches careers and deny the team a chance to win.

Lees-McRae made the same argument in 94 WRT GPA and cost when they did away with football after 100 years. It's an adminstration slowing bleeding it away for a future strike against the teams.

[CNU85]

Captains811 - got figures from CNU.edu.  It's under Admissions and then a link that says "what kind of student attends CNU" or something like that...in the left margin. Lots of good info and then some really stupid stuff.

[CNU85]

Here's a question for all of us "experts". Is it harder to recruit football players than other athletes? If so, what other sports are difficult? easier? Does it matter if it is a woman's sport? Here's why I ask. A lot has been said about recruiting and the difficulties for CNU with ODU and current administration admission requirements. My rebuttal is - it doesn't seem to affect other CNU sports. A total sports winning % of 74% last year. Men's soccer currently ranked #2, women's volleyball #13 (with a player this week names NATIONAL player of the week), Field Hockey #8, Women's hoops in Sweet 16 last year with a 3 time All-American junior returning for 1 more year.

Hope this generates some good discussion!

[Captains811]

Dont have time to respond in full right now, so just an observation:  During my time at CNU 2002-06 and since, the only three sports that have noticibly declined to me (in terms of overall talent, and to a certain extent winning %) are Football, Men's Basketball, and Baseball. 

The sports 85 mentioned have all done exceptionally well and in many cases alot better during the past 7-8 years then they did before CNU began growing so rapidly.

[narch]

ODU did it!! Why not CNU? aND TELL Them kids in D2 who cares and the ones who made it.

Narch is the man

get back to me when odu beats anyone of consequence...right now, they're beating up on a bunch of teams with fewer scholarships than they have (d2) or no scholarships at all (d1aa non-scholarship) - in fact, this season, they have a loss to a non-scholarship program (jacksonville)

pat coleman is the man

[narch]

811 - your points are all valid (except the 14% acceptance rate...even duke admits more than 14% of their applicants), but i would contend that the cost and facilities (both athletic and non-athletic) are a much bigger advantages than the gpa/sat requirements are a hinderance...i can assure you that most (mind you, most...not all) of the student-athletes at mu would have been granted admission at cnu, but if they had been va residents, i contend that few would have chosen mu over cnu in large part because of the difference in cost and facilities - mu has had some success recruiting soccer (men and women), track and baseball players in va, but other than that, not many va student-athletes on the mu rosters - i can also give you 100% assurance that cnu is still taking a number of exceptions, and those exceptions aren't at all unlike the lower 1/2 to 1/4 of incoming students at places like mu, su and maryville...when you've got 1,200 freshman, it's much easier to "mask" those 870 SAT scores in your averages than it is if you've got just 350-400 freshman...think back to your statistics class(es) at cnu, and you'll understand what i mean

all you have to do is look at cnu athletic rosters to see where the bread is buttered with regard to cost...not many out-of-state students in the mix at cnu, and it's not a coincidence...cnu coaches obviously realize that it's tough to get kids to pay $26K per year (but the privates in the usasac all have to get them to pay $30K+ before financial aid)

[Pat Coleman]

I figure someone should enforce the bet even if he isn't man enough to do so for himself.

[narch]

here's a plug...coach sypult is one of 5 d3 coaches in the running for liberty mutual coach of the year...i think all of the usasac fans should vote for him

www.coachoftheyear.com.

[Captains811]

Narch, all great points.

You are right on about ODU not having beat anyone of consequence.  I am interested to see how they will do this Saturday again William and Mary.  I would guess not very well, but we will see.

I agree to an extent that "most" student athletes at MU would get into CNU, however I bet the majority of your "most" would not be playing football.  Also, you are right in stating that the larger size of CNU's incoming freshman class would allow to "hide" the exceptions and still not bring down the overall GPA and SAT numbers down that much.  However, I would contend that the "exeptions" at CNU are not granted for applicants with scores as low as at, for example, NCWC.

I could not find exact numbers but this is from the admissions page on NCWC website...

"Typically, students should have a 2.7 GPA and an 800 SAT score or a 17 Composite score on the ACT to be regularly accepted into NCWC."

An applicant with that GPA and SAT score would be doing nothing but wasting an application fee in applying to CNU.  If that is what is "regularly accepted at NCWC, then would would qualify as an exeption?  Per CNU's website, the average GPA and SAT score for incoming freshman is 3.6 and 1200.  An exeption to to that requirement would probably fall more in line with MU's avg scores for incoming freshman, which per their website are 3.28 and 990

All that being said, CNU still has a significant advantage in cost and facilities.  While that is a huge deal in winning athletes that could get into any USA South school they wanted to, it doesnt help at all the prospective student athletes who have no chance to be giving an "exeption, and therefore have to go to say, NCWC.

[Bishop64]

Nice looking Web site

[Allen C]

Website looks great Pat! If anyone is interested, I am a contributing writer to the William and Mary blog.
www.thetribalfever.com

I wrote an article about the upcoming W&M/ODU game.

Here is the link to the article:

http://thetribalfever.com/?p=723

[Pat Coleman]

Thanks for the props.

REAL: Please don't violate the newspaer's copyright by pasting its whole story here.

[GuyFormerlyPSBBG]

Pat: This site works great via mobile.     USASOUTH: I've read the last few posts about Cnu's football team  being not as good as it has been in the past, but couldn't it be that the conference has recruited better.  It't not like the presidents of the colleges want theses teams to fail.  Winning brings in money.  Baketball and football are big moneymakers and that is not just CNU.  That probably runs true at most colleges.   "THE U'S" football sucess made Miami what it is today.  (Note to the College that nearly went under this past year,  if you build it, THEY  will come.)