FB: USA South Athletic Conference

[musupporter]

big game for preston today, albeit too little too late...

Nothing against Murphy but I couldn't understand why Preston was 3rd QB.  Only thin I can figure is that he doesn't run all well as Murphy.  The kid played extremely well considering.  I certainly see him moving back up on the depth chart.

[musupporter]

big game for preston today, albeit too little too late...

Nothing against Murphy but I couldn't understand why Preston was 3rd QB.  Only thin I can figure is that he doesn't run all well as Murphy.  The kid played extremely well considering.  I certainly see him moving back up on the depth chart.
[/quote

Long day.  Sorry for the grammaticals

[crazylegs33]

CNU ran for over 500 yards and stymied Averett's offense to -3 rushing en route to a 43-12 gutting of the cougars.     


NCWC next week. Huge game for the USA South Title race.

[Allen C]

Should be a huge game, but I think CNU will take care of business....with very little problem.

[flippy]

Good Morning. I was hoping that some of you might be able to answer a question for me. I have a nephew that plays at Averret and watched the game this weekend with CNU. CNU is a dominating team, as someone said they gutted the Cougars and there really isnt another way to decribe it. I have quizzed my brother in law on this and he is new to D3 so really couldnt answer, suggested I try some of you.

To pre qualify myself I know nothing about D3 football but do follow the WVIAC at home but that is a D2 conference. I was under the impresson that D3 was made up primarily of small, private schools and players that would have been considered good to very good in high. CNU pretty much blew that theory out the window. I have done a little research and they are not the only state school playing D3 but anyway, here is the question(s).

1. What exactly constitutes a D3 school? Guess what I mean is can any school apply for D3 status regardless of size, public, private etc.
2. How do schools like Averret compete with schools like CNU?  1/2 the cost of tuition and 5 times the size, seems like a monumental task at best.
3. Are there any D2 schools or conferences in VA.? I could not find any, dont know of any but not sure.

CNU is an excellent football team, from what I saw and having watched the WVIAC for many years they could easily compete in that conference. Size, speed, skill wise are very much on the same level. I believe they might even be larger as far as student body than any WVIAC school, exception being possibly Shepherd.

I know it may sound like I am taking a swipe at CNU and thats not the case but I am really having a hard time wrapping my head around the differences between two schools that compete in the same conference. Thanks for any help you can offer.

Zippy.......

[CNU85]

I think Hasanova would be well qualified to answer. Those are very good questions. Of course, we can revisit the previous 512 pages of posts to see all the public vs private debates and what is the true cost of college for a private school athlete...and varying academic standards.....and we all have examples to prove our points of view. I have long given up on the issue and just go watch games. But I trust Hasanova will have very insightful info on these questions.

[Allen C]

Flippy/Zippy-

I will try to answer some of your question....

2. How do schools like Averret compete with schools like CNU?  1/2 the cost of tuition and 5 times the size, seems like a monumental task at best.
3. Are there any D2 schools or conferences in VA.? I could not find any, dont know of any but not sure.

In the State of Virginia, there are D2 schools. St. Pauls, Virginia Union and Virginia State. They play in the CIAA.

I will say that competing with CNU is a difficult task. They have an excellent program from top to bottom. The public school vs. private school equity question is, in my opinion a fair question, but I don't propose to have the answer...only my opinion.
The USA South is made up of eight schools (football) in three states. TN, VA, and NC. Of these eight schools, 7 of them are private. CNU is the only publicly funded school in the conference in football. (I keep prefacing football as there are other schools in the conference that do not participate in football, and I am not sure of their public/private status)

Does this give the student an advantage? Certainly the  tuition is far less expensive for a State subsidized institution. Can the argument be made for advantages in the athletic programs?  In my opinion it can. Facilities are probably going to be nicer, and budgetary restrictions that are on the smaller private colleges, may be less on a CNU for example. Looking at this year alone, here are some headlines from the USA South .com website:

Christopher Newport Picked to Win 2009 USA South Football Title
Christopher Newport Picked As USA South Preseason Volleyball Favorite
Christopher Newport Picked to Capture USA South Men's Cross Country Title
Christopher Newport Picked as Women's Cross Country Favorite
CNU Men's Soccer Now Second In Nation

I am sure that the spring sports headlines will be very similar.

While these are mostly predictions, they will most all be accurate. Hopefully this will illustrate the difficulties that an Averett has in competing on most all levels in this conference. (Although I think the Cougars had a good hard court season last year!)
And as you might guess, this is a problem that most all conference teams face.

As for the part of your question about what are the parameters for a school to be D3, I will leave that to someone else...Pat, Maybe you should weigh in on this aspect of his questions... I am not familiar with these guidelines.

I hope this helped. I can guarantee, on thing, this will provoke a lot of discussion.

[flippy]

Thanks for your response Allen. I take it this has been tossed around a time or two so will apologize in advance if I happen to ask questions that have already been answered somewere down the line. Has there ever been any discussion concerning scholorships for D3 athletes? D2 I believe allows 25 per team, might be wrong there but even 10 or 15 per team at D3 seems like it could really help the smaller schools. Granted just because they have them doesnt mean they could afford to give them out but 2 or 3 even might make a difference.

Does anyone know if CNU has ever considered making the jump to D2?  Seems like it would be the next step for them to continue building thier program.

Thanks again and if anyone can shed light on D3 requirements I would love to hear it.

Thanks again...

[hasanova]

I think Hasanova would be well qualified to answer. Those are very good questions. Of course, we can revisit the previous 512 pages of posts to see all the public vs private debates and what is the true cost of college for a private school athlete...and varying academic standards.....and we all have examples to prove our points of view. I have long given up on the issue and just go watch games. But I trust Hasanova will have very insightful info on these questions.

Thanks, CNU85.  I'll offer my thoughts on this, but you and others have already chimed in with a lot of good information and opinions as well.

As far as I know, any school of any size and charter can apply to any NCAA classification and there are four for football (IA, IAA, II, III) and three for other sports (I, II, III) ... I know the names have changed for the football classifications, but old habits die hard.  lol

Besides CNU in the USASAC, other notable exceptions to the private school majority in DIII would be the entire Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Association (WIAC).  In my mind, it's not a coincidence that UW-Whitewater is a perennial finalist for football.  There are other state schools in DIII scattered across the USA, but the WIAC stands out.

You have to be approved by the NCAA, of course, and accepted by any conference to which you apply, but all you have to do is agree to abide by the rules of your chosen division.  In the case of DIII, that means no scholarships solely for athletic ability ... ways around this are always "financial need" and "academic merit."  In the case of CNU, it also equates to a heavy "discount" for being a state-supported school with a much larger pool of students.  Trust me, this entire discussion of state versus private has been played out extensively in this forum.

In CNU's case, it also boils down to geography, as they are somewhat isolated on the far eastern side of VA.  If not the USASAC, who do they play?  Sure, there's an argument that they should go DII, but their only viable option might be the CIAA, an Historically Black College and University conference, that spans Virginia and NC.  I'm not saying CNU wouldn't join the CIAA, but I don't think it's their best fit.

On the other end of the college sports spectrum, how does Wake Forest compete in DI?  Granted, they were woeful in football for the longest time, but that's changed due to commitment to the program more than student body size or low tuition.  In DIII, you'd think the championship would normally go to a state school, but it doesn't.  Mt. Union is private, relatively expensive and of average DIII size, so what's their secret?  I'm not sure, but it isn't their tuition!

It's just my opinion, but I think in my lifetime CNU will become big enough to join a mid-major DI conference ... think James Madison, Old Dominion, Richmond, Liberty, Elon, High Point, Wofford as opponents.  That takes money also and the time isn't right.

[Pat Coleman]

One-fourth of Division III is state schools. It's not a coincidence that there's a state school that's a perennial finalist in football (before UW-Whitewater, Rowan was a frequent visitor to Salem) because mere math suggests it's a 50-50 proposition.

[Allen C]

For Some Reason, I think Stadium size may prohibit some 1AA schools from competing in 1A.

William and Mary for instance use to compete in the Southern Conference, and was considered on the same level as VA Tech, UVA and even Played Pitt when Dorsett was there. While they still play one 1A school regularly...like UVA this year (Go Tribe!!) they were relegated years ago to 1AA as their stadium would only hold a limited amount of spectators. (@ 12000-13000) I may be wrong on this but I seem to recall there being issues with expanding the stadium and it "fitting in" with the "colonial " atmosphere.

Other than that as a possible factor, I have no idea

Dont know if that same logic could apply to a d3 moving to d2

I also would not be surprised to see a CNU at some point down the road advance to even 1AA status and join the CAA.

[Pat Coleman]

There are no enrollment requirements or anything of that nature anywhere in the NCAA and the attendance minimum is a D-I FBS (I-A) requirement only.

Schools choose for themselves what division they want to be in. It's that simple. How much money do you want to spend on athletics? That's the question a school needs to ask itself.

[kickerdad]

CNU ran for over 500 yards and stymied Averett's offense to -3 rushing en route to a 43-12 gutting of the cougars.     

Damn!!!!! just when you think they had overcome 2007 and were expanding on what was done in 2008, this happens. Didn't get opportunity to go to game or even listen/watch on webcast.......however I can see visions of 2007 from start to finish. Sounds like CNU's running back who supposedly was coming back from a knee injury had his way with the defense.

Noticed from pictures on school's web page Averett came out with new jerseys this past week. Look nice, but could be a bad luck thing....haha

Hopefully, they can find the offense (from where ever they decided to hide) and rebound this weekend.

AUPOP.........were you at the game? What was your take on things?

[kickerdad]

How do schools like Averret compete with schools like CNU?  1/2 the cost of tuition and 5 times the size, seems like a monumental task at best.

Zippy.......

Another thing to consider after several winning seasons for CNU is recruitment. Guys coming out of high school (especially in the Hampton Roads/Tidewater Area) don't even consider schools like Averett, Ferrum, Shenandoah, or the ODAC schools, when you have CNU right in their back yard and the "W" column is 5 times the length of the "L" column. That plus lower cost, I would consider to be two of the stronger drawing cards CNU has.

[hasanova]

Pat's right and I appreciate him adding that 25% of DIII schools are state-supported.  I would have guessed less - maybe 1 in 7.  It is partly a matter of odds ... if 25% of the schools are public, then logically you'd surmise one of the four semifinalist each year should be public.  It is, then, as Pat said, 50-50 that a public school will be in the championship game.  With U-W Whitewater, for example, that's exactly what's happened four years in a row.

Speaking of Rowan, I'm also glad Pat mentioned the Profs.  With apologies to Prince, are they the NJ school formerly known as Glassboro State?