FB: USA South Athletic Conference

[historymajor]

Ralph,,, funny we should meet here..  over this!  The 'kinder-gentler' approach usually means bad news for football.  As gender-equity spreads and more and more AD's come out of women's sports, I'm not sure what's going to evolve!  Your thoughts?  (and by the way, good luck in DII and to Coach Ierulli)

[Ralph Turner]

Admissions and retentions for student-athletes are make or break issues for small liberal arts colleges like McMurry or Maryville.

Maybe not as much for the Trinity's and Emory's of the world...

Since football is big in the south and may have the biggest incremental impact on admission and retention, then we will see how successful she is with her philosophy and the financial success of the institution that can atributed to her efforts and actions.

This is not necessarily "cut and dried" as a gender issue.  McMurry's outstanding Men's Track Coach, Barbara Crousen, a multi-year winner of South Region Men's Track Coach of the Year, knows how to motivate men.  In my dealings with her, and imagining how I, a cross country runner and miler, would have related to her as my track coach, I would have run thru brick walls for her!  She is inspiring.  It is hard to find the words but the genders take different styles, and the wise administrator will be comfortable with success when it occurs.  It seems to me that Coach Ierulli was successful.

[jknezek]

Everything has a learning curve. I remember my Dad coaching me for years in soccer. He spent one season coaching my sister and said there was no way he would ever coach girls again. And he never did. I'm sure he could have learned how to do it eventually, it just wasn't for him.

As with any job or position of responsibility, people often come into the role feeling like their way of doing things is the best or only way of doing it. Often, as they grow into the role, they find that what worked for them and got them to their position, won't work for others. The people that learn and adapt when coming across these situations, regardless of gender, tend to be successful. Those who try and ramrod a theory down subordinate's throats often find themselves unsuccessful and out of a job.

It will be interesting to see what happens at MC. Unfortunately, changes in bosses in any institution/workplace often lead to turnover in the workforce. It seems like the football coach got stuck in that kind of situation. Hopefully he will land on his feet and MC will find a coach that can be successful both on the field and with the new AD. If not, the AD probably won't last beyond her first 1 or 2 unsuccessful football hires...

[GuyFormerlyPSBBG]

http://www.greensborocollegesports.com/sports/fball/2011-12/releases/201112071nijjl

Congrats to the Pride player, MVP at the National Bowl.

[scottiedoug]

Ralph Turner, who usually knows of which he writes, says:  "Aside from moral turpitude, repetitive criminal behaviors by players or embezzlement, it sounds like there are no significant grounds for his dismissal that football players/alums/friends would consider adequate."  I submit that in this instance perhaps my friend is assuming too much. 

There are lots of things about any program that are not obvious to people looking, however carefully, from outside.  Maryville's retention rate for players who were recruited to play football, for instance, was not very good.  Coach's claim in the press that he got a 3.1 evaluation (out of 5) from his own players and that he thought that was pretty good makes me wonder how he thinks.  I am not sure I would be bragging in public about such an evaluation.  His "suggestion" that this is all about a couple of softie women (the AD and the VP of Student Affairs) not understanding manliness is insulting and revealing.  And Coach Lambert (men's basketball) was characterized as supporting the football coach by the football coach, as relayed by a reporter.  I would not bet much on the veracity of that claim.

Coach Iruelli asked MC to delay the announcement over the Thanksgiving weekend so he could rally an army of angry supporters.  He was unable to do so.  I guess all the real men were tripped out on turkey.

[Ralph Turner]

Ralph Turner, who usually knows of which he writes, says:  "Aside from moral turpitude, repetitive criminal behaviors by players or embezzlement, it sounds like there are no significant grounds for his dismissal that football players/alums/friends would consider adequate."  I submit that in this instance perhaps my friend is assuming too much. 

There are lots of things about any program that are not obvious to people looking, however carefully, from outside.  Maryville's retention rate for players who were recruited to play football, for instance, was not very good.  Coach's claim in the press that he got a 3.1 evaluation (out of 5) from his own players and that he thought that was pretty good makes me wonder how he thinks.  I am not sure I would be bragging in public about such an evaluation.  His "suggestion" that this is all about a couple of softie women (the AD and the VP of Student Affairs) not understanding manliness is insulting and revealing.  And Coach Lambert (men's basketball) was characterized as supporting the football coach by the football coach, as relayed by a reporter.  I would not bet much on the veracity of that claim.

Coach Iruelli asked MC to delay the announcement over the Thanksgiving weekend so he could rally an army of angry supporters.  He was unable to do so.  I guess all the real men were tripped out on turkey.

+1!

Thanks for the post.

[abnrgr]

sorry to break the chain since you are making some pretty good points Dr Turner. You're good for advanced age. Like me. 

ADM Papi, Narch, and you Methodist dudes need to shop around in Havelock. The 16-0 State Champions.  I played in 6 and coached in 7 playoff games there. About time somebody won that thing.

They pretty much were unstoppable after smitting 4-A New Bern. If they do not have any talent they will at least hit you HARD

There's got to be some studs down by the river.

[batteredbard]

This is the story from the Highland Echo - The Maryville College student newspaper - talking to Ierulli. (The site carrying it seems to run all stories like a blog, so you have to scroll to bottom and click more by the headline)

http://blountpressrow.com/college.php

ScottieDoug I have a copy of the player evals that I assume are real since there contain all manners of handwriting and grammatical styles. Ierulli's math is pretty good on the average.The problem I ran into is there is nothing to compare the score to out there and no way to get it from a private school. We can't compare it to soccer or basketball or even past seasons to establish any baseline.

The college also no commented on what Ierulli and players have told me that the evals were filled out with AD Schram doing to instruction and collection of forms for the coaching staff. I don't know if that's kosher or not. It hadn't been done that way for football in previous year end meetings, but I don't know yet if that procedure was used for all fall sports teams as a change in athletic department policy or not.

It's made it very frustrating to not be able to file a FOI request for records to make any comparisons and if officials choose not to talk, it pretty much kills the conversation. But at the end of the day, it's not like the school will rehire Ierulli from alum pressure. The school seems to be moving on and only time will give us a measuring stick of the firing's impact on some of the football program's critical areas like recruitment and retention. I'd guess Ierulli is moving on to a new job. I do believe he'll be a big plus to someone if he's given the chance to focus on one area as the DC. (There is irony in the fact he led the USASAC coaches in the Liberty Mutual coach of the year voting)


And to totally stray into new ground, has anyone got a lowdown on what the schedules will look like next season? I'm guessing it will be plug and play with LaGrange simply filling Shenandoah's spot in the rotation for football, but haven't heard if that's what will happen or if the league is looking at making tweaks while it's on the table.

[Ralph Turner]

Thanks for the link, 'bard.

[abnrgr]

So has the coach gotten any bites somewhere? Don't know the guy but from what I have read it was probably a mistake to let him go. You ALWAYS have a couple of people who will not be happy anywhere they go so you have to look at it holistically before you hammer someone. I think it's BS to in this case. The one statement I hang on is the one the female adminsitrator made about "it's not about him being a man and me being a woman" or words to that effect. If it was not she would have never said it.

Sounds like a EO complaint to me. I (personally) would never go back to a situation like that but it's all about accountability.

[narch]

i was turned on to this video by a friend today, and thought it relevant to the firing of coach i, particularly given his assertions about why he was fired

i think almost every college in the country would love to have bill curry coaching and here is one of his statements from the video "there's not an easy way, or a nice way or a polite way" to teach football

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjgX94dxh7M

[abnrgr]

good one Narch. +1 for you today. Curry is spot on. And so are you....most of the time. 

[scottiedoug]

It was Coach I who asserted in the press that his dismissal was somehow related to the gender of the AD.  I submit that people who have inadequate information have as much right to an opinion as do people who know the details of a situation...  The idea that all "tough" coaches are alike and worthy of deference because they are "tough" is silly and not a very good basis for either an opinion or an employment decision.

[narch]

The idea that all "tough" coaches are alike and worthy of deference because they are "tough" is silly and not a very good basis for either an opinion or an employment decision.

i certainly hope that you don't think that i was asserting that all "tough" coaches are alike...the point i'm making is that one of the most highly regarded football minds (bill curry) is acknowledging that "there's not an easy way, or a nice way or a polite way" teach men to be good at football and life

one of coach i's other assertions was that he was fired in part because he was too hard on the players...i understand fully that there are two sides to every argument, and that we have (and likely will only) hear one side

[abnrgr]

Scottie
I am NOT attempting to get a atta boy for what I did but I am saying this for a making a point. I coached in high school and at the NAIA level.  I coached at a Havelock where being tough was considered a requirement. Sometimes we only fielded a 35 man team. I was also a Special Operations officer and a Ranger. I think I kind of know what tough is, what brutal was, and what guys could take. I also did not compare tough coaching as in one basket. a Ranger has a 40% chance of becoming a Ranger. That means 60% did not make it. So if I applied that to coaching which I did I had a high attrition rate with my linebackers. Some just could not hack. that's called a vetting process or standards. If you are not tough enough to hack it that's the way it went. You did not lower your standards of toughness to make everyone feel good. Not everybody got a atta boy or a trophy. In combat you get kilt and in coaching you lose. Neither one is palatable. Coach "I "who I do not know, but I read he did not lower his standards. Standards are non negotiable.