BB: USAC: USA South Athletic Conference

[coachmilburn]

I wish folks would quit hate'n against SU's record.  SU cannot be penalized because they are the most furtherest northern school in the USA-South.  They are (27-7) in-region and 33-8 overall with one game left on the docket.  They played teams within 200 mile radius of the school which are "in-region" teams for SU.  Some of those PA schools are less than 2hours, why wouldn't you play them?

The NCAA setup "in-region" games 3 different ways: the actual region your team resides in; 200 mile radius of your school and the admin geographic region that your state belongs to.

The rankings is what matters and they were #3 on April 23rd and have won two more "in-region" since the 23rd.  I have never heard of a team winning more games and getting lowered in any rankings.

If their schedule was so weak, WHY were they even ranked 3rd on April 23rd?  Obviously the numbers are telling the "ranking committee" a different story then what other folks want to believe. 

April 23rd Reg'l ranking:
1. 32-6 29-5 Millsaps
2. 33-5 26-5 Salisbury
3. 31-8 25-7 Shenandoah
4. 21-9-1 17-9 Christopher Newport
5. 24-9 24-9  York (Pa.)

[Falcon2720]

York is the most northern team in the south region.  They are in PA.  Even through they are in PA they played or are playing 32 games against true south region teams and 8 against teams in 200 mile radius.

SU has played 16 games against teams not in the "south region" and went 15-1 against those teams.

No wonder SU is leaving the USA-South and joining a PA conference.

[Ralph Turner]

York is the most northern team in the south region.  They are in PA.  Even through they are in PA they played or are playing 32 games against true south region teams and 8 against teams in 200 mile radius.

SU has played 16 games against teams not in the "south region" and went 15-1 against those teams.

No wonder SU is leaving the USA-South and joining a PA conference.

Leaving the USA-South?

Which conference are they rumored to be joining?

(The past news was their attempts to join the ODAC.)

[narch]

SU has played 16 games against teams not in the "south region" and went 15-1 against those teams.

by this measure, su is 12-6 against true "south region" teams

milby is right, though...only the regional rankings really matter, and i don't think cnu will jump shenandoah AND salisbury

i think shenandoah's record, regardless of what teams they've played, is strong enough...although i think the monarchs are a better team (and they proved it head-to-head and over the course of a usasac season)

[Catfishncwc]

I know regional record is just as important as conference but why would we want the team that had a .500 record in the conference and had a 3-6 record against the teams that finished ahead of them in the conference.  
Conference play is all about your best against the other teams best and well if we look at it like that then SU's best was not as good as the elite teams in the conference not to knock on the season that they had but I still think they do not measure up against top quality teams.  

[CNU85]

great weekend for the captains...

Think a split with Salisbury and a sweep of York is good enough to get invited to the dance?

[coachmilburn]

York is the most northern team in the south region.  They are in PA.  Even through they are in PA they played or are playing 32 games against true south region teams and 8 against teams in 200 mile radius.

SU has played 16 games against teams not in the "south region" and went 15-1 against those teams.

No wonder SU is leaving the USA-South and joining a PA conference.

That South-Region is kinda of setup weird with York, PA being in there ... 21 games from 6 teams of the York's "True South Region" 31 games are "conference games" and 5 of the remaining 10 they picked up in spring break trip?

USA-South only had 1 team get their 12 conference games in which was NCW, everyone else only got 10 conference games that are "True South Region".

So York had 11 more "True South Region" games based just on "conference games" only, so one would think that would explain a good portion of the variance between 31 games for York and 26 games for SU.


Averett Cougars
Birmingham-Southern Panthers
Bridgewater (Va.) Eagles
Catholic Cardinals - 1x
Centre Colonels
Christopher Newport Captains - 2x
Eastern Mennonite Royals
Emory Eagles - 1x
Emory and Henry Wasps
Ferrum Panthers - 2x
Gallaudet Bison - 3x
Greensboro Pride - 1x
Guilford Quakers
Hampden-Sydney Tigers
Huntingdon Hawks
LaGrange Panthers
Lynchburg Hornets
Mary Washington Eagles - 3x
Maryville (Tenn.) Scots
Methodist Monarchs
Millsaps Majors
North Carolina Wesleyan Bishops - 1x
Oglethorpe Petrels - 1x
Piedmont Lions - 1x
Randolph-Macon Yellow Jackets
Rhodes Lynx
Roanoke Maroons
Rust Bearcats
Salisbury Sea Gulls - 4x
Sewanee Tigers
Shenandoah Hornets
Spalding Golden Eagles
St. Mary's (Md.) Seahawks - 4x
Stevenson Mustangs - 4x
Virginia Wesleyan Marlins
Washington and Lee Generals
Wesley Wolverines - 3x
York (Pa.) Spartans


If folks don't like they rules setup by the NCAA for the "in-region" games, then contact them.



Selection Criteria:


Primary Criteria

The primary criteria emphasize regional competition (all contests leading up to NCAA championships); all criteria listed will be evaluated (not listed in priority order).

• Win-loss percentage against regional opponents.
• Strength-of-schedule (only contests versus regional competition).
   - Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OWP).
   - Opponents' Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OOWP).
• See Appendix B for explanation of OWP and OOWP calculations.
• In-region head-to-head competition.
• In-region results versus common regional opponents.
• In-region results versus regionally ranked teams.
• Ranked opponents are defined as those teams ranked at the time of the rankings/selection process only.
• Conference postseason contests are included.
• Contests versus provisional and reclassifying members in their third and fourth years shall count in the primary criteria. Provisional and reclassifying members shall remain ineligible for rankings and selection.

[coachmilburn]

To set the record straight, Shenandoah is "(27-7) in-region" and 19-7 within the "South Region" which makes them 8-0 outside of the south region but within the "in-region" guidelines set by NCAA.

Bottom line folks ... (27-7) "in-region" no matter how you try to tear it apart.

[Catfishncwc]

take bias out of this and would you really want the 4th best team in the USAC conference with a 3-6 against the 3 teams above them to represent the conference in regionals.   bloated regional record aside do you really think they are deserving.  If so I can back that.
Trust me I want more than one team to be in the regional from our conference but I would rather have MU or CNU represent the USAC. 

[coachmilburn]

take bias out of this and would you really want the 4th best team in the USAC conference with a 3-6 against the 3 teams above them to represent the conference in regionals.   bloated regional record aside do you really think they are deserving.  If so I can back that.
Trust me I want more than one team to be in the regional from our conference but I would rather have MU or CNU represent the USAC. 

SU actually "tied" for 3rd with 5-5 record with CNU and the tie-breaker procedure put them in 4th.  EVERY USA-South team had an equal opportunity of winning the Conference tourney and SU was in the championship game taking on NCW.  Unfortunately, MU was eliminated on Day 2 by going 0-2 and CNU was eliminated on Day 3 by going 2-2.

There is a lot of parity within the USA-South.   By looking at the regular season standings, how can anyone determine who were the dominant team(s) ?  One game separated the teams tied for 3rd with 2nd and it was just 1 game in the loss column with 1st place.  Also 1 game separated the teams tied for 5th.

SU is very much deserving with their "in-region" record by the rules.  With a little luck, they could of split with MU and could have swept CNU which would have given them #1 seed in regular season at 7-3.  It was that close and if they were not deserving, then why are they even being ranked? 

I think some folks are having a difficult time digesting that Shenandoah University is a program that has risen from the basement of the USA-South and looks to be a competitive program on a annual basis.



1.   8-4 N.C. Wesleyan   
2.   6-4 Methodist   
3.   5-5 Christopher Newport   
4.   5-5 Shenandoah   
5.   4-6 Greensboro   
6.   4-6 Ferrum   
7.   4-6 Averett   

[NCWC]

get a job

all it takes is one game more than your opponent.  If they are that good they should have won the conf.

[coachmilburn]

get a job

Sorry cowboy, but "Catfishncwc" asked me of my opinion and I am sorry you did not like what I had to say.

[narch]

Think a split with Salisbury and a sweep of York is good enough to get invited to the dance?

yes i do...

milby...su has had a fantastic year...sit back and enjoy the fact that your hornets will continue playing in the regionals (most likely)

i agree that a little luck could have propelled the hornets to a win against mu and a sweep of cnu...i would add that ONE PLAY against ncwc could have given the monarchs the outright regular season usasac title and a shot at 30 wins...as you say, there is a fine line between the top 4 usasac teams (and the bottom half of the usasac is as good as the top half of some leagues...i think ferrum, au or gc could win the conference that frostburg plays in)

i think the more germane question is...can the usasac get 4 teams in the regional

[Catfishncwc]

I guess I have having a team deciding is SU the best team to get a at large or  the most deserving based on record.  I think they are probably deserving just not the best team.  I guess I am saying MU and CNU have better teams, just not the resume that SU put together. 

[hokieone]

       Shenandoah had a school record-breaking season, what could be considered a "break out" season for the program, and they fought neck and neck with the rest of a strong USAS Conference. The conference is obviously well-balanced, and there are no gimmes. The NCAA invites are somewhat of a beauty contest, with committees doing the judging.  CNU, MU, and SU can all make their cases. Traditionally, playing a weaker schedule is not helpful when you get down to as close a call as may well be the case here. Was Shenandoah's nonconference schedule weak overall? Surely. No real knowlegeable baseball fan would look at it and say otherwise. It may well be that Shenandoah's geographic location dictates more games against what would normally be considered "northern schools", particularly Pennsylvania schools, and it's got to be a royal pain to be 3 hours from your closest conference school (CNU).  And you still have to win them. All three schools had a loss or two they'd love to re-play. Does Shenandoah deserve a bid?  In a perfect world, sure they do, but so do CNU and MU. But in a world where for whatever reason perhaps only one at large bid will go to the USAS, if any, then somebody has very tough decisions to make. 

  I hope the USAS gets three bids and CNU, MU, and Shenandoah all go dancing.  SU can argue their overall record, CNU can argue their overall record and their 5-1-1  against very strong nonconference foes Salisbury, York, Rowan, and Lynchburg, Methodist can argue their record and overall body of work, but in the end, the folks on the committee will decide, somehow, some way.

All three schools have had great seasons, and the statistics in the USAS this year were off the chart anyway.  I commend everyone for supporting their schools and sure hope that Milby can cut and paste or the man  has to have his fingers worn to  the nub by now. Not a thing wrong with supporting your guys, and let's keep it on a high and civilized plain as we approach decision day.

By the way, when IS decision day? I seem to recall last year they didn't announce the bids until 3-4 days before regionals began.