BB: USAC: USA South Athletic Conference

[108 Stitches]

I am new to the board as my son is now playing in the SCAC (freshmen), so I pop in to see what is happening in DIII baseball. To answer your question regarding why 90 throwers are playing DIII it is pretty simple. Academics. My son got more money for academic performance than he was offered at some D1's for athletics, plus he thought it was going to be very difficult to play two ways and take a challenging major at a D1 program. D1 coaches are not paid to graduate kids who want to be Dr's, scientists or engineers, in fact they discourage kids from those majors.  In my son's case he can play in a nationally ranked program, have a  chance to compete in the post season, he has a very chance to start as a freshmen, have a great college experience and major in a difficult degree. (plus the girls are cute in Texas) What is not to like about this?

BTW he was working in the high 80's in HS so I am pretty sure he will at least be touching 90 as a freshmen after being in their strength and conditioning program and with good coaching. As far as pitching goes Trinity probably did not get to Wisconsin because their number 1 flamethrower could not find the strike zone in the regional. It is certainly not all velo, and I would bet the Chapman team could turn on any 90 middle in FB.

[CrashDavisD3]

I agree that 90 is way overrated if you can't spot it up. They threw a guy first game of regionals against Piedmont that threw hard and was a transfer from a D-1 and we saw where that got them. Piedmont's ace was consistently 82-84 and spotted very well and shut them down. My question is why are they at a D-3 throwing 90?

Yes you are exactly right. If you can hit your spots throwing 90, no D1 in the program will keep you. I know several guys that hit mid 90's that get cut from minor league teams because:
1) Cant throw strikes
2) Dont have a 2nd pitch that can be thrown for strikes so the batters light him up.

I have seen a D3 SoCal pitcher who threw in the 90's get lit up for several runs several times in 2010.

[baseballVA]

A lot of people think they throw 90, or think somebody throws 90 and they really throw about 84-85.  Or they throw 80-81 and claim to throw 86-87.  Thats another thing to consider.  A lot of people are clueless.

[D-BAT]

Agree with Rollin2 on the mph thing.   I think many teams out there have a kid that can throw a ball through a wall sitting on the bench because he can't throw it for a strike, or it has no movement and it winds up beyond the fence too often.  Most coaches hold on to these guys hoping they can teach them some control - at least enough to make them a middle reliever or closer.  Sometimes it works, most of the time they remain Nuke LaLoosh (before he met Crash Davis). 

Not saying that SU arms fall into that category - they could have corralled 3 starters with that velocity.  D-Bat - how about some more detail about these three arms?  Are they new to the team?  How is SU filling the holes left by Brashears and Van Sickler?

1 returner, 1 rookie and a new guy who has not seen any time on the mound for SU.

Info comes from very reliable sources inside SU's walls.  2 of these two young men have developed within SU's program.   

It was stated that SU has one of their most talented freshmen classes ever as several of these new Hornets have great opportunities to play if they win the position(s) outright.

[108 Stitches]

A lot of people think they throw 90, or think somebody throws 90 and they really throw about 84-85.  Or they throw 80-81 and claim to throw 86-87.  Thats another thing to consider.  A lot of people are clueless.

It is called "ask dad subtrack 7". There is also "High School 90" and "College 90". HS touched it once with a strong tail wind during a bull pen one time, and working in the 90's.

[baseballVA]

agreed, touching 90 and throwing 90 are two completely different things.  someone can sit 85-87 and jump up and hit 90 once or twice.  but when somebody is sittin 90 its completely different.  and especially D3 its hard to believe that anybody throws 90 let alone 3 guys on one team.  some d1 programs have 3 guys that sit 90 the rest high 80s. 

[southernball8]

I agree. Most pitchers that are throwing 90 in D3 did not come in their freshman year throwing that. I know of two pitchers that built up that but were mid 80's out of high school. I would love to see a flat 90 mph fast ball!!

[BBFan62]

I agree. Most pitchers that are throwing 90 in D3 did not come in their freshman year throwing that. I know of two pitchers that built up that but were mid 80's out of high school. I would love to see a flat 90 mph fast ball!!

I agree completely with the last 3 threads. Love the "ask dad and subtract 7". So true! It can also depend upon which gun, Jugs or Stalker. One will register a couple of mph or so below the other.
We could've had at least 2 that will hit 90 a few times in a game but one guy told coach on the first day of practice he decided not to play anymore. He battled arm problems his whole career and, due to them, was only able to give us 12 ( but solid) innings last year.

A combination of strength training and mechanical adjustments will get some guys to 90 or slightly beyond. When coach used the gun on our staff during fall ball we had 3 guys 86-87 and 1 guy at 89, so we'll see how the winter workouts go and whether or not they'll have the big C's (control and command)  in the spring.

[PNeal7]

I agree with all of the comments made in regards to this MPH discussions. As any true baseball player or fan knows, MPH is one of the most vastly overrated numbers in the game. One of the best pitchers of all time in the MLB was Greg Maddux, and we all know where he registered on the gun. I would rather have a kid who is pitching at 84-86 than a kid throwing 90 anyday. Mixing speeds and location are far superior qualitities for a pitcher to have than simple MPH. Two of the best pitchers the USAS has had in recent years, and for that matter ever, are Kenny Moreland and Greg Van Sickler; neither of which were 90+ MPH pitchers. While both probably touched 90 once or twice in their careers, neither would sit much higher than 86-88.

I have to admit, I love the "ask the dad and subtract 7 rule." It is completely true. While SU may be geared up for another solid run this season, it is extremely unlikely they have 1 or 2 kids hit 90; much less 3. Brent Berschinger used to be able to top 90 some out of high school, but that was a few injuries ago, so I'd be axnious to see if he can still hit that speed. I would say he would be able to hit 90 a few times, so I'll give them 1 90+ guy in Brent. However, I am not quite sure where the other 2 come from. While I admit I do not know their roster as I did a few years ago, I have a decent grasps on it given my locality to their Winchester location. Unless the other 2 kids are FR, I do not see them having another guy touching 90+.

[108 Stitches]

Ohh good ole' velocity always gets the juices flowing.....

First, this comes up all of the time. Greg Madux WAS a hard thrower and was drafted out of HS mostly because how hard he threw. Second, a hard thrower who can locate will always win vs. a soft thrower who can locate. There is nothing better than a watching a hard thrower who's FB runs IMO. Third: Everyone agrees that velocity means nothing if you can't hit the strike zone, and change speeds. Finally I imagine most Div III 90MPH guys develop after they are in college otherwise they would most likely be playing Div I.  I personally know one who was a mid 85 guy out of HS and was drafted this year out of CLU. He now works low 90's now and touches 95.

I am quite sure that there are a number of freshmen pitchers who, after being in their colleges strength and conditioning program and working full time with a pitching coach will at least touch 90 this year.

[BBFan62]

Ohh good ole' velocity always gets the juices flowing.....

First, this comes up all of the time. Greg Madux WAS a hard thrower and was drafted out of HS mostly because how hard he threw. Second, a hard thrower who can locate will always win vs. a soft thrower who can locate. There is nothing better than a watching a hard thrower who's FB runs IMO. Third: Everyone agrees that velocity means nothing if you can't hit the strike zone, and change speeds. Finally I imagine most Div III 90MPH guys develop after they are in college otherwise they would most likely be playing Div I.  I personally know one who was a mid 85 guy out of HS and was drafted this year out of CLU. He now works low 90's now and touches 95.

I am quite sure that there are a number of freshmen pitchers who, after being in their colleges strength and conditioning program and working full time with a pitching coach will at least touch 90 this year.

Having been a life long Cubs fan all I can say is, "Wait 'till next year!" 108 stitches, you're right. Maddux (Greg, not Mike!) threw up to 93 coming out of high school. When Mike (5 years older than Greg) was asked when he realized Greg had potential he answered "When he was 15 and I came home with some of my buddies from college. We played a pick up game and nobody could touch him". Maddux tells everyone that he realized he was more effective at a lower speed because he had better movement and could spot the ball better. At the end of his career I attended a Padres - Cubs game during which Maddux struck out 7 batters. Okay, they were Cubs, but pro player neverless, and Maddux never topped 86 on the stadium gun.
As far as D1 vs D3, go to school for the education first, baseball second. If you are skilled enough to get drafted, heck, go try it out. If you get hurt or cut, at least you have your degree. Even D players, other than the top tier, have a very slim chance of getting drafted. Heck, just do the numbers of draft numbers (about 1,500 each year) versus the 6,000 players in college and the 1000,000 or more kids playing high school ball. Plenty of players are not going to hear the phone ring. So, when it comes to college ball I told my son (he chose D3 over D1) - when it comes to playing in college remember 3 things. Education. Education. Education.

[baseballVA]

no kid wants to chose d3 over d1. 

[BBFan62]

no kid wants to chose d3 over d1.

baseball Va,
Not quite the case. My son wanted a small to medium sized school that would challenge him academically. He would have gone to the University of Wisconsin - Madison, because his sister was there but they do not have a baseball program.
He scored a 35 on his ACT's. At his school the average ACT was 31 when he entered. He was, until this year, triple majoring in Math , Chemistry, and Economics, but decided against Chemistry. This fall is his "weak" semester, in that he is takinbg 16 credit hours. Also, he's taking honor courses. He also received credit for all 5 of his AP classes he took during his senior year of HS. Last fall, as a Sophomore, he took 21 hours. All that and baseball too. D3 cares about education. It's not always the case a D1's. So, there really are players looking to get an education while having fun playing ball. He has been a starter since his Freshman year. That year he was a starter (RHP) and also DH. Last year he started 1b when he wasn't on the mound. If he went to a D1 school he most likely would not have been a starter and would not have played a position when he wasn't pitching. So, look beyond the letters of the baseball being played and understand education should be the number one reason for going to college.

[D-BAT]

Some asked for reports from SU ... so I shared what I was told and now others are saying it's not so.

So what others are telling me that one of the coaches within SU is lying to me, correct?

For the record, the Brentschinger kid never hit 90mph in high school and was injured his SR year.

[PNeal7]

While I was out of high school during the end of his career, I faced Berschinger in the summers a few times before he was injured. He was throwing every bit of upper 80's consistently; and I was told by some fans in the stands that the gun on him hit 90 once or twice. I do recall he got hurt, as if I am not mistaken he orginially had a scholarship to Western Carolina.

I am by no means implying a SU coach is lying; heck, they know their program and roster better than any of us "armchair quarterbacks" do. If they claim to have 3 guys who can hit the 90's, then maybe the do. However, I'll be extremely anxious to see if these kids hit that MPH level; and if they do, if they can "pitch" at that MPH level. I am by no means degrading any schools in the USAS, especially given that I played in the conference, but if a kid can consistently "pitch" at 90, meaning being able to locate 90 and mix speeds, then they shouldn't be playing in the USAS.

I am in complete agreeance with all of the education comments. There are a number of kids who choose to go to a smaller school strictly due to academics. With the schedule of a Division I baseball program, it is extremely tough for a kid to keep up with their academics. The USAS has had a number of very, very talented players who easily could have played at a higher level, including Divison I; but they chose Division III. While I am not implying academics was the sole reason, I am sure it played a role in some. I tend to believe a lot of high level talented players choose smaller schools due to the opportunity to play right away; rather than redshirt and sit out a few years while they "buy their time."