BB: USAC: USA South Athletic Conference

[108 Stitches]

Congrats to your son BBFan62, sounds like an exceptional kid, but I guess you knew that.

I would agree with baseball Va,  as far as most talented kids wanting to play D1 vs. D3 baseball. However for high academic kids wanting to play competitive baseball and take a difficult major there are not a lot of options in the D1 world. Ivy's yes, Stanford yes, Rice maybe, however for any top 25 D1 program, the possibility is slim other than Stanford, and actually play on the field . D1 coaches are paid to win and not have your son graduate with a pre-med, science, math, or engineering major. As far as the competitive level of the baseball a top 20 D3 programs would compete quite nicely with the Ivy programs. These also give a player the chance to play for a winning program and also participate in post-season competition. (and actually have a chance of getting to the national championships)

As far as I can tell D3 baseball is broken into two groups, approximately 20% of the programs are nationally ranked or are putting out very competitive teams year in and year out. If you want to play competitive baseball and take a difficult degree then D3 baseball is the place for you, particularly at a school that has a very competitive program.

Like you BBFan, my son was a D1 player who had options to play at the mid major level but when he took into account the ability to take a difficult major, play competitive baseball and actually play on the field all four years, then he decided on playing D3 baseball. He found an excellent school that is nationally ranked, they win a lot, he has a good chance to play two ways as a freshmen and he is also getting more money for academics than he was offered athletically. Not much to not like.

As far as draftability, he will have the same prospect as playing for a mid major D1. He will get to play summer ball against D1 players and what will be will be as far as the draft goes. 

[BBFan62]

Congrats to your son BBFan62, sounds like an exceptional kid, but I guess you knew that.

I would agree with baseball Va,  as far as most talented kids wanting to play D1 vs. D3 baseball. However for high academic kids wanting to play competitive baseball and take a difficult major there are not a lot of options in the D1 world. Ivy's yes, Stanford yes, Rice maybe, however for any top 25 D1 program, the possibility is slim other than Stanford, and actually play on the field . D1 coaches are paid to win and not have your son graduate with a pre-med, science, math, or engineering major. As far as the competitive level of the baseball a top 20 D3 programs would compete quite nicely with the Ivy programs. These also give a player the chance to play for a winning program and also participate in post-season competition. (and actually have a chance of getting to the national championships)

As far as I can tell D3 baseball is broken into two groups, approximately 20% of the programs are nationally ranked or are putting out very competitive teams year in and year out. If you want to play competitive baseball and take a difficult degree then D3 baseball is the place for you, particularly at a school that has a very competitive program.

Like you BBFan, my son was a D1 player who had options to play at the mid major level but when he took into account the ability to take a difficult major, play competitive baseball and actually play on the field all four years, then he decided on playing D3 baseball. He found an excellent school that is nationally ranked, they win a lot, he has a good chance to play two ways as a freshmen and he is also getting more money for academics than he was offered athletically. Not much to not like.

As far as draftability, he will have the same prospect as playing for a mid major D1. He will get to play summer ball against D1 players and what will be will be as far as the draft goes.

Well stated 108 stitches. Best of luck to your son as he progresses. I actually forgot about the money aspect. Considering the NCAA changes regarding how money needs to be awarded to players, many kids will get a lot more from a D3 school because D1 schools have to spread it around better. His school ended up giving him 3 offfers, increasing the amount each time. Aside from academics they also considered "talent". Besides 2 sports, he was a member of the band all 4 years. His HS was invited to China his senior year (he missed 10 days of BB as a result) so they added money for cultural exposure. I doubt he would have gotten as much as he did if he went D1.
He did pitch in a D1 league last summer. He ended up leading the team in appearances, became a starter by the years end, and ended up pitching the third most innings on the team. There were 14 pitchers; he was the only D3 pitcher on the team. Right now he is strugglig with what to do next summer. He is considering taking an internship but really wants to play ball.  So, we'll have to see how everything goes.

[NoVa Baseball]

I feel compelled to pile on here about the D1 vs D3 thing.  A lot of factors go into a college decision.  In my estimation, most of the recruited players at top echelon D3 teams could easily play at the lower echelon of D1.  Most were recruited by those same lower echelon D1 schools but chose a top echelon D3 school.  Some of the factors that go into such a decision are: 1) cost - it gets pretty expensive for a kid to go out-of-state to play D1 when he's only picking up 25% in scholarship money.  Shaving 25% off of $40-45k at an out-of-state school is still more expensive than 18K - 25k in-state and many D3 schools will chip in acedemic scholarship money.   And that mandatory 25% just started - in the past it could have been just an offer of book money.  2) Distance - If you are only getting recruited by East Central State Oklahoma, or Binghamton University, NY and you live in Virginia, you must really want to play D1 badly.  Do players get drafted out of those schools? - yes, but odds are still against you there.  3) Playing time - most recruited D3 players start or play as freshman - most D1 do not.  If a kid already has a pretty good idea that professional ball is not a likely destination, why would he want to waste 1-2 years on the bench?  Balancing college ball and school is hard enough - I have a great admiration for the kid that sticks it out with limited playing time.  4) Lastly, the aforementioned education value - There are some great academic D1 schools, but there are a lot more that are marginal educational experiences.  Not to pick on East Central (it was my father's undergraduate college) but how can they, (and MOST of the lower echelon of D1 baseball) compare to the vast majority of D3 schools which are typically excellent private and public schools?

To me there is are several reasons why a low D1 - high D3 player would choose to attend a D3 school.  Having watched many of them competing with all levels of D1 players in summer ball, I'm convinced that inability to play at that level is not one of them. 

[CrashDavisD3]

Lets talk the 90MPH club....Out on the West Coast there were several 90 MPH pitchers all in High School all played in the same league in SoCal. All were drafted out of high school. A couple of them even made it to the show BUT they all were hit hard several times in HS games. WHY?

Because they could not throw a offspeed pitch for a strike.

Same goes for the several 90 MPH that played for D3 SoCal schools. I can show where there were hit hard and chased in games with actual box scores..Some these got drafted and are doing well against WOOD bats....

Guys that throw balls that have late movement and can change speeds and throw different pitches for strikes are the ones with low ERA's, high strikeouts and most wins......

Like I said throwing 90MPH is overrated and is only good for scouts guns and not much else in DIII baseball.

[Boysofsummer21]

It is very nice to see everyone getting back into the posting as it is my least favorite time as it goes quite this time of year. As to this discussion I agree that hitting your marks and changing speeds is much better than 90 mph. I would much rather have a pitcher rather than a thrower. But I also really hope that SU reloads well for their final season in the USA South! I have really gotten spoiled by the latest rivalry that has blossom with CNU and SU and want that for one more year (call me spoiled or selfish) SU lost some very good players and will need to bring in some but they have the basis for a really good team. So I am hoping that all reports for SU are true – I heard that they were really stroking the ball.
As to best pitcher who can change speeds, hit marks and get the hitter to hit the pitch he wants him to hit it is IMHO, on the better top level D3 teams, either the #1 or the closer. They generally have the best velocity and use it as a tool not a crutch. Agree – disagree let me know.

[baseballVA]

i think that velocity is a huge advantage especially at the D3 level.  Most of the D3 hitters have not been exposed to 90+ mph.  (other than "dad plus 7" 90).   but regardless, even if a guy is throwing 90 and may have control issues he will do well in D3. no doubt that if he faces a quality club he will occasionally get ran out early, but for the most part he will have success because he will have 1 other pitch that he can "show."  It may not be a strike but enough to keep the hitters off balance.  Also, sometimes if a 90 mph pitcher is wild, it makes the hitter uneasy in the box and is not only effective because its fast but because the control issues makes batters a bit apprehensive.  Throwing hard is a huge advantage.  Not so much at D1 because there are more guys that do throw that hard, and the hitters are more exposed to it.  Also, throwing 90+ will obviously have an advantage when considering the draft because you can learn control and learn new pitches.  Sometimes you cant teach 90.  Its like running speed.  They say you can't teach speed.  You may be able to work and get a bit faster or throw a bit harder, but for the most part those things are God gifts.  Speaking from experience at both levels of play. 

[southernball8]

I do not agree with you at all when you say most D3 guys have not been exposed to 90+. Where I played high school my Junior year there was a team in the region with all 3 starters throwing low to mid 90's and other teams in the region had that as well. Oh yea...that team also had 5 kids drafted that year. If you throw 90 and are flat you are going to be in for a long day.

[LTBB1971]

If you throw 90+ in D3 you WILL be able to get away with more mistake pitches....flat out.  That usually catches up to you by the 4th inning.  second time around the lineup, smart hitters will figure you out and you will be running your laps by the 5th cause you will be out the game.  I have been coaching pitchers at the HS level since 2005 and I have seen many pitchers at the 80, 81 MPH level that can get consistent outs cause they can master the change up...personally to me the best pitch in baseball.

[CrashDavisD3]

If you throw 90+ in D3 you WILL be able to get away with more mistake pitches....flat out.  That usually catches up to you by the 4th inning.  second time around the lineup, smart hitters will figure you out and you will be running your laps by the 5th cause you will be out the game.  I have been coaching pitchers at the HS level since 2005 and I have seen many pitchers at the 80, 81 MPH level that can get consistent outs cause they can master the change up...personally to me the best pitch in baseball.

You are exactly right. Good teams, good players will catch up to the 90 MPH guys. I saw in high school and several times in D3 games. I seen guys that throw 90 MPH get chased several times over the years before the 5th. I see guys that throw low 80's last a whole game just getting outs and winning games. Now a guy that throws 90 MPH that throws strikes with a outstanding change up can be unhittable. But if that were true you wont find him pitching for any college team and never at the D3 level.

I watched the career wins leader at a top well known D3 school never threw above 85 mph. He pitched 4 years as a starter.

Years ago I witnessed Troy Percival early in his career of the Angels come into the 9th and give up 3 home runs to the Indians on fast balls near a 100 MPH. Guess what, at that time in his career all he had was a fastball.

[Boysofsummer21]

To all my fellow USA South and all baseball fans have a HAPPY and SAFE Thanksgiving!

[WHEELIN WES]

no kid wants to chose d3 over d1.

This is an untrue statement as others have pointed out. My son had the opportunity to go play at a D1 college coming out of high school. This school was honest and upfront with him letting him know he would have to redshirt his freshmen year and would be destined to be a left-handed reliever out of their bullpen and they offered no educational major that he had the least bit interest in so they were quickly scratched from his list of possible college choices. He had a handful of offers from good D2 schools but only one of those fell into the range of distance he wanted to travel away from home and although they did offer a major he was interested in he knew up front it would probably be his junior year before he started seeing significant pitching appearances (this school won the D2 national championship his college freshman year and the coach left the door open for him to transfer to them any time he wanted to with athletic scholarship money on the table all the way through his college career-a fine and a highly respected coach). As a young man that had been a starting pitcher all his life and had never spent any time not playing on the bench was looking for a college with the right educational field and a place where he felt like he could earn his way onto the mound his freshman year. A ton of D3 schools recruited him and he quickly narrowed his choices down and made his final decision. As a freshman he gained some significant pitching time and and began his sophomore year as a weekday starter posting a great record and by the end of the year had worked his way up to share time as the number two starter. As a Junior and Senior he went on to serve as the number one starter for his team and in the midst of this after his freshman year he was invited to play in a wood bat college leagues (one of only two D3 players on the team that year) where after his junior year summer (the only D3 player) he garnered the league's Most Outstanding Pitcher Award.
In June 2011, I had the honor and privilege of watching my son walk across the stage at NCWC and receive his BS in Environmental Science on time- eight semesters in four years which he has since put to good use.
So, he absolutely made the perfect decision for himself. He played with some great teams, great teammates and friends, accomplished some really good things on the baseball field and also accomplished the most important thing of going to college-gained a great education.
So the right D3 school was the perfect fit for him (and for me and his mom as well for with the academic awards scholarships he was given the financial cost on us was basically a wash versus he D2 or D3 option) to attain all of his goals as it is for many other young men.

[CrashDavisD3]

no kid wants to chose d3 over d1.

I just dont believe this statement at all. Most D1 players get very little money for scholarships. Many D3 schools financial aid packages are better. I have seen D1 players transfer into D3 programs because of being unhappy with their playing time, coaching staff, school, or lack of team success in D1...

A West Coast team I know goes to D3 Regional playoffs almost every year and most years the DIII World Series.

I also know a D1 school in the West, ends up in last place most years or bottom of the conference. Most players are not in the program all 4 years and few if any graduate from the D1 school in 4 years.  I know many players that have miserable experiences in D1 programs and would have been better off playing baseball in a D3 program.

[narch]

even if a guy is throwing 90 and may have control issues he will do well in D3. no doubt that if he faces a quality club he will occasionally get ran out early, but for the most part he will have success because he will have 1 other pitch that he can "show."  It may not be a strike but enough to keep the hitters off balance.  Also, sometimes if a 90 mph pitcher is wild, it makes the hitter uneasy in the box and is not only effective because its fast but because the control issues makes batters a bit apprehensive.  Throwing hard is a huge advantage.  Not so much at D1 because there are more guys that do throw that hard, and the hitters are more exposed to it. 

wrong

greensboro college had a kid a few years ago who came to these boards boasting of his 90 mph velocity...he did, indeed throw in the 86-88 mph range consistently, and may have even hit 90+ every once in a while...he also had an era over 7, if i remember correct - i watched the monarchs light him up for 8 or 9 runs in 3+ innings - velocity means little if you can't pitch

[rolln2]

Well I guess we have all talked enough about the hard throwers in recent posts.  Is anyone ready to start talking and predicting how the teams will finish in the USAS conference in 2012?  The boys' only have about a month or so and they will be back on the field practicing.  January will be here before we know it.  So lets get started talking USAS baseball.

[LTBB1971]

Although my spirits are high every year, I have been highly disappointed the last 2 years by NCWC play and ability to hold on to returning recruits, so with about 40 games in the schedule I believe anything over 22 wins will be a reach for us.  Pitching staff will have a bunch of unproven players and the only returning bats worth mentioning are Junior C Tyler Clark and Soph OF Hayden Williams.  Anxious to see what shows up on the field 1st weekend.