BB: USAC: USA South Athletic Conference

[Spence]

Dustin Pedroia and many others fit this also. Like I said they measure "tools".

Pedroia was from California and went to Arizona State. Not exactly an under the radar player.

There have been D-III players drafted that weren't even the best on their teams, a few that barely even got playing time. Matt freaking DeSalvo was undrafted, presumably because he was only 6-feet tall. No one will ever be able to logically explain that.

He's not the only one, though.

[PNeal7]

I agree in that many good baseball players get passed over every year, at all levels of the game. But any DIII kid has an uphill battle to play at the next level. While I agree the .100 per division may be a bit extreme, I do know that most scouts would take a SS who is 6'3" and a .250 hitter in DI over a 5'8" .400 hitting SS in DIII. It is all about how an individual "projects" down the road with a consistent training program and a lot of coaching. I've seen plenty of pitchers with 'stuff' that would not be considered next level worthy, yet they were drafted due to size and projection.

I was not by any means knocking Alexander or Swartout, as they both had fine seasons. I was merely making a statement that based on size, statistics, and metrics alone they would not be on many radar screens. I think Chrismon (CNU) will have an uphill climb, although I do think he will get drafted after next season due to the fact that he has the size  (6'3", 225+) to play at the next level and that he was already drafted once before.

At the end of the day, the minor leagues is a lot of roster filling to have people to play with the "bonus babies."

[Boysofsummer21]

PNeal - agree Chrismon will probably go after next year. It is a shame really you look at Guys like Swartout and even Fleishman from CNU and they will never really get that shot to see. I think the thing that hurt Fleishman the most is CNU making him their closer and never getting a chance at starting. I think Taylor CNU will get a look but needs to keep working and building his body. I have seen a lot of really good ball players in the years and this time of year can really be hard on them so I hope they keep the faith and have enjoyed their college time as much as possible. I think that anyone who plays at the college level should be proud of that and they all have my respect!

[PNeal7]

Amen Boysofsummer. Playing ball at the college level is tough, regardless of what division, so to do it successfully is a great accomplishment. That last game as a SR is never easy. I'm sure the majority of us would give up a lot to have 4 more years of elgibility!

I, too, think Taylor is probably the best current prospect of them all due to being a LHP and MPH.

[Catfishncwc]

I will try and give a scouts prespective on D3 guys and the draft and some of the players this year.
As I always say their is nothing wrong with being a Good College baseball player.  Their are up to 1200 kids drafted each year and that includes College and HS kids of those maybe 10-20 are D3 Kids.  So if you are talented enough you will and can be drafted playing the D3 Level but the odds are against you.  Stats do nothing to get you drafted at the D3 level or any level really, Stats will get you looked at but not drafted.  Tools and project-ability are what get you drafted.  Of the D3 kids I have seen this year I would say one of them has a outside shoot and that is Chrismon at CNU at getting drafted. 
Other players like Swartout and Alexander have outside chances of being undrafted free agent signees or indy ball players.  I liked what I saw out of Swartout but without command of FB or a real out pitch at the next level I think Indy Ball would be something for him if he can get a tryout or show something at a open Indy Tryout.  But a under 6 foot righty who throws around 88 is not going to get a long look at the draft. 
The Draft is about what they think you can do in the future not about what you have already done.  Yes a lot of kids each year are over looked but for the most part we tend to get it right. 
People give me names of players in the ODAC and USA South that go undrafted each year, but with those names is a laundry list of reasons why they were not drafted.  Lets remember you can count the number of Major League players currently playing that played D3 ball on one hand. 

[narch]

Isn't chrismon draft eligible this year? If so, i fully support him being drafted ASAP

Blake maxwell was drafted and closed primarily...of course he's huge and touched 90 at times, so he projected well and had a very respectable minor league career

[PNeal7]

I will try and give a scouts prespective on D3 guys and the draft and some of the players this year.
As I always say their is nothing wrong with being a Good College baseball player.  Their are up to 1200 kids drafted each year and that includes College and HS kids of those maybe 10-20 are D3 Kids.  So if you are talented enough you will and can be drafted playing the D3 Level but the odds are against you.  Stats do nothing to get you drafted at the D3 level or any level really, Stats will get you looked at but not drafted.  Tools and project-ability are what get you drafted.  Of the D3 kids I have seen this year I would say one of them has a outside shoot and that is Chrismon at CNU at getting drafted. 
Other players like Swartout and Alexander have outside chances of being undrafted free agent signees or indy ball players.  I liked what I saw out of Swartout but without command of FB or a real out pitch at the next level I think Indy Ball would be something for him if he can get a tryout or show something at a open Indy Tryout.  But a under 6 foot righty who throws around 88 is not going to get a long look at the draft. 
The Draft is about what they think you can do in the future not about what you have already done.  Yes a lot of kids each year are over looked but for the most part we tend to get it right. 
People give me names of players in the ODAC and USA South that go undrafted each year, but with those names is a laundry list of reasons why they were not drafted.  Lets remember you can count the number of Major League players currently playing that played D3 ball on one hand.

Very well said Catfish. As I mentioned in an earlier post, it's all about how a kid 'projects' in the future. I'm not sure what territory you cover, but have you had a chance to see Herget throw from Kean University?

[Catfishncwc]

Isn't chrismon draft eligible this year? If so, i fully support him being drafted ASAP

Blake maxwell was drafted and closed primarily...of course he's huge and touched 90 at times, so he projected well and had a very respectable minor league career

Yes chrismon is draft eligible, he is a Junior this year.  He played two full seasons at ECU. 

[Catfishncwc]

PNEAL
I had not seen Herget throw, I normally don't see players outside of my Scout Supervisor's area (VA, NC, SC) unless they come play teams in my area. 

[Spence]

I still think teams miss a lot of guys because they're always chasing "projectability" and end up with busts. Sure they didn't lose much in terms of money but they did just throw away a chance to draft a useful player on a guy that all he ever did was light up a radar gun or look good in the weight room.

[Catfishncwc]

I still think teams miss a lot of guys because they're always chasing "projectability" and end up with busts. Sure they didn't lose much in terms of money but they did just throw away a chance to draft a useful player on a guy that all he ever did was light up a radar gun or look good in the weight room.

A player drafted is not all about filing a roster for the Low Level A team.  Their are a lot of D3 players that could play for minor league teams.  A player is drafted in the hopes of a skill or a skill set that can get to the Big Club.   that is why kids who throw in the mid 80's who could get people out in low level ball and probably do really good on those clubs are passed over by the 6-4 kid who throws 92.  6-4 an 92 mph plays a lot better in the higher levels than 86ish.  I hate it as much as the next person that more D3 kids are not drafted but the reality is tools are the name of the draft game and players at the D3 level just don't have the same tool box of skills.  I was on a staff that had 3 pitchers play pro ball and our best pitcher and the guy you wanted on the mound for the big gmae didn't play a day of pro ball. 

[Spence]

I still think teams miss a lot of guys because they're always chasing "projectability" and end up with busts. Sure they didn't lose much in terms of money but they did just throw away a chance to draft a useful player on a guy that all he ever did was light up a radar gun or look good in the weight room.

A player drafted is not all about filing a roster for the Low Level A team.  Their are a lot of D3 players that could play for minor league teams.  A player is drafted in the hopes of a skill or a skill set that can get to the Big Club.   that is why kids who throw in the mid 80's who could get people out in low level ball and probably do really good on those clubs are passed over by the 6-4 kid who throws 92.  6-4 an 92 mph plays a lot better in the higher levels than 86ish.  I hate it as much as the next person that more D3 kids are not drafted but the reality is tools are the name of the draft game and players at the D3 level just don't have the same tool box of skills.  I was on a staff that had 3 pitchers play pro ball and our best pitcher and the guy you wanted on the mound for the big gmae didn't play a day of pro ball.

That 6-4 guy that throws 92 may never see a day in the "higher levels" because he can't throw the ball over the plate.

The best major league pitcher of my lifetime barely touched 90 after his first couple of seasons, and was getting guys out throwing mid 80s fastballs at age 40+. He was only 6 feet tall.

I would think late in the draft teams would want players that can be productive at some level.

Any of those 3 pitchers ever make it?

[PNeal7]

Spence - Who was the greatest pitcher of your lifetime? I assume you are referring to Maddux.

I would say the most dominant pitcher I've ever seen (unless Justin Verlander is on) was Pedro Martinez, who could certainly light up the radar gun.

Unfortunately, "it is what it is" in terms of D3 players getting drafted. As Catfish mentioned, players are judged based on how they project as a potential MLB player, not how they would play at the low levels of the minor leagues are how they played in college. One of the best baseball players I've ever played with or against was Trae Bailey (SS, CNU). Listed below are his numbers are 4 years at CNU. He seemingly came up with every big hit in every big situation he was put into, and he hit 3rd in the lineup his SO, JR, and SR season. He was also one of the best defensive players I've played with/against (despite less than spectactular fielding % numbers). However, he was small in size, his power at the D3 level did not project to potential power in the MiLB/MLB, and he was extremely slow in terms of a 60 time. He ended up getting a sniff of indy ball, and that is is.

FR - .323, 2 HR, 14 RBI, 4 2B's, 96 Total AB's, .936 Fielding %
SO - .323, 3 HR, 37 RBI, 15 2B's, 161 Total AB's, .919 Fielding %
JR - .427, 10 HR, 62 RBI, 21 2B's, 171 Total AB's, .947 Fielding %
SR - .404, 9 HR, 44 RBI, 9 2B's, 156 Total AB's, .939 Fielding %

[Spence]

Spence - Who was the greatest pitcher of your lifetime? I assume you are referring to Maddux.

I don't think there's any question.

I would say the most dominant pitcher I've ever seen (unless Justin Verlander is on) was Pedro Martinez, who could certainly light up the radar gun.

Unfortunately, "it is what it is" in terms of D3 players getting drafted. As Catfish mentioned, players are judged based on how they project as a potential MLB player, not how they would play at the low levels of the minor leagues are how they played in college. One of the best baseball players I've ever played with or against was Trae Bailey (SS, CNU). Listed below are his numbers are 4 years at CNU. He seemingly came up with every big hit in every big situation he was put into, and he hit 3rd in the lineup his SO, JR, and SR season. He was also one of the best defensive players I've played with/against (despite less than spectactular fielding % numbers). However, he was small in size, his power at the D3 level did not project to potential power in the MiLB/MLB, and he was extremely slow in terms of a 60 time. He ended up getting a sniff of indy ball, and that is is.

FR - .323, 2 HR, 14 RBI, 4 2B's, 96 Total AB's, .936 Fielding %
SO - .323, 3 HR, 37 RBI, 15 2B's, 161 Total AB's, .919 Fielding %
JR - .427, 10 HR, 62 RBI, 21 2B's, 171 Total AB's, .947 Fielding %
SR - .404, 9 HR, 44 RBI, 9 2B's, 156 Total AB's, .939 Fielding %

.950 is not bad for a shortstop. That's about where Tim Saunders was his last two years. Bailey played before the BBCOR changes so 9-10 HR was good but not great and maybe not even best on his team (I can't remember if he played with Phaup and Turner or not). I mean yeah in that era 20 XBH in a season is probably not gonna get you noticed, especially if you don't have speed and you're a middle infielder.

I'm not saying that any productive player should get drafted. I'm just saying drafting "tools" guys that haven't gotten results doesn't seem to work too often. But I've seen career .400 hitters with strong defensive skills and good speed for their position be dismissed by scouts simply based on size. That's just foolish, IMO.

[PNeal7]

Bailey was after Phaup and Turner, so he was the best we had during those years. Bailey played with Chris Despins, who had potential and the size to get noticed (6'4+, 230ish), but his head wasn't screwed on right. Despins also transferred to CNU after 1 year at the D1 level (Longwood I believe, but not positive). The years Bailey hit 10 and 9 HR's, Despins was right behind him in the lineup and hit 10 and 6 respectively.

I agree with you in that not all skills can be measured. Some kids just have a 'baseball knack' and know how to the play the game. If scene enough times, scouts can generally pick up on that as well. However, it's generally tough for someone to realize that if they only get the chance to watch you play once or twice, and at the D3 level scouts certainly aren't lining the seats at every game unfortunately.

At a recent VBL meeting, we actually had a few scouts (can't remember their names or level of scouting) stop in to meet with all league owners. They told us that they love when we sign D2 and D3 kids, as that gives them a chance to see top talent at lower levels all on the field together. Plus, they said it gives them a chance to see kids they normally wouldn't see during the season due to making their rounds at the bigger universities/colleges within the respective territory.