BB: USAC: USA South Athletic Conference

[108 Stitches]

.......................hear ye' hear ye' all bow down to the mighty Spence, knower of all that is baseball DIII ............

[Spence]

 

[PNeal7]

Several D3 baseball players do take a different course load in the spring than they would be able to (or want to) at the D1 level. D1 college baseball players are on the road much more than D3. That gap closed a bit when the USAS switched back to a 3 game weekend series, forcing teams to travel on Thursday evenings instead of Friday evenings, but nonetheless D1 teams do travel more.

The educational demands are the same across all divisions (with some schools being tougher than others, like Harvard, Emory, etc.), but for the most part the kids need 120 credits to graduate. Some may just consider it tougher to do at the D1 level in the spring due to the number of classes missed.

I also know many baseball players who take 6 classes in the fall, or 1 in the summer, to allow them to take only 4 in the spring semester. I would always take an online class over the summer, which let me do this. It was very nice only having 4 courses in the spring.

[Catfishncwc]

I know I only took 4 courses in the Spring.  But I did take the 5 year college path.  2 at a JUCO and 3 at NCWC. 

[Spence]

Yep. Taking labs or night classes in the fall is another tactic. Where there's a will, there's a way.

There are D3 athletes that play more than one varsity sport. So the myth that D-III athletes just couldn't handle more, is just that. There are also D-I athletes that graduate in 3 years. You also can't convince me that Ivy League (or Duke or Vanderbilt...you get the idea) athletes can handle their workloads, but an MIT kid or Marietta petroleum engineering major can't. That's really being insulting to the D-III player.

But again, I'm unconvinced that it would even make much difference for class time missed. D-I max is 56 games, right? Most teams would just play more games down south and a midseason weekend tournament or two and you're most of the way to the difference between 40 and 56. Maybe 2-3 extra DH dates. Teams already in the south have more time to get their games in, and playing more games would be no problem at all.

The only challenge I can see is with schools in Minnesota, but if those schools had been able to schedule more games, they could have planned better and built more trips into the schedule.

We're not talking about the days when Wichita played 80+ games in a season. The D-III record for games played in a season I think is 65, that counts tournaments and all.

[narch]

spence - while i am certain that you understand d3 athletics very well (if i didn't think that, i just need to look a few posts down to see your thoughts on the subject  ), your posts don't reflect that you understand the d3 philosophy very well - i don't think anyone questions the d3 student-athlete's ability to handle the load - d3 schools have chosen a philosophy that says the educational experience is more important to them than the athletic experience, hence fewer games and more restrictions

sure, d3 student-athletes could play more games (and i don't think you'd find many student-athletes who would argue against additional games on their schedule), but d3 schools have chosen to participate in a division which limits the number of games so that students can maximize the collegiate experience, both inside and outside of the classroom - i choose to celebrate and applaud this rather than complain about and bash it - i can guarantee you the majority of d3 student-athletes have the opportunity to build much more impressive non-athletic resumes than their d1 (and even d2) counterparts - that resume is the only one that matters for 98% of college athletes (probably 99.8% of d3 athletes)

[Spence]

I think I understand it just fine.

I also think people here often just pretend to read what I write, rather than actually reading and understanding it.

You really think a couple extra doubleheaders a year and playing more ball on a spring trip is going to impact the ability to build a resume? Give me a break.

You can guarantee me nothing of the sort.

The 40-game limit exists because many D-III schools want to run quasi-recreational programs but still be able to boost enrollment by attracting students with their program. Similar game limits in softball are even more ridiculous, given that you can often play a softball game in the time it would take to have a meal at a good steakhouse.

[PNeal7]

Spence - I agree with you in that educational demands are the same across all divisons. And that D3 athletes could handle a course load in the spring at larger schools. But I know for a fact D1 baseball players miss more classroom time than D3 baseball players. Whether it is a significant amount more, or slightly more, is the bigger question. D1 athletes generally travel more often, and longer distances, for the majority of their games when compared to D3 kids. In my 4 years at CNU, we never once stayed overnight for a weekday game, unless we were on a spring break trip. While D1 does not do it often, they have done it on occasion. Several guys I played with in the VBL had it occur, as well as several kids we have now.

Regardless, all baseball players (across all divisons) miss plenty of classroom time in the spring. They also miss more classroom time that several other sports (football, for example, where your schedule is pre-determined every week). Student-athletes, especially at the D3 level where they are not receiving a ton of scholarship money (zero athletic money, just depends on if the school could get them academic money), put in a lot of time, effort, and long hours to play the game the love and maintain grades.

[narch]

I also think people here often just pretend to read what I write, rather than actually reading and understanding it.

even though i'm from the south, i'm purty good at understanding stuff ...when you say that you think d3 restrictions on games are ridiculous, there aren't too many ways it can be interpreted by an intelligent person

i get it...you want d3 schools to play more games and you think it can be done...and i agree that it can be done - the question is should it be done? i think many who embrace the d3 philosophy think the system works just fine right now - in my mind, there is a nice balance with the schedule as it is now

if you think that there aren't more athletic demands placed on d1 or d2 players, i think you simply don't know what you're talking about - not long ago, i spoke to a d1 coach whose son was a d1 caliber player - this is a direct quote "my son could play baseball for me and nobody would question it...he's a legit d1 prospect, but i want him to look at d3 schools because i want him to do something other than play baseball in college"...we continued to have conversations about the demands baseball places on his players, and the fact that his players rarely do much beyond go to class, work out and play baseball - ultimately, his son ended up playing for him, though

[Spence]

Regardless, all baseball players (across all divisons) miss plenty of classroom time in the spring. They also miss more classroom time that several other sports (football, for example, where your schedule is pre-determined every week). Student-athletes, especially at the D3 level where they are not receiving a ton of scholarship money (zero athletic money, just depends on if the school could get them academic money), put in a lot of time, effort, and long hours to play the game the love and maintain grades.

To me this is the real crux of the thing. Well put on all accounts.

[Spence]

if you think that there aren't more athletic demands placed on d1 or d2 players, i think you simply don't know what you're talking about - not long ago, i spoke to a d1 coach whose son was a d1 caliber player - this is a direct quote "my son could play baseball for me and nobody would question it...he's a legit d1 prospect, but i want him to look at d3 schools because i want him to do something other than play baseball in college"...we continued to have conversations about the demands baseball places on his players, and the fact that his players rarely do much beyond go to class, work out and play baseball - ultimately, his son ended up playing for him, though

And I'm sure there aren't any conflicting anecdotes at all. Pretty good school named after a railroad tycoon out west has a baseball program some have heard of.

[108 Stitches]

When my son was being recruited we found that the only D1 schools that would accommodate engineering/science schedules were Stanford and UCDavis. Both programs allowed for afternoon lab classes. All of the other D1's that he was recruited by did not. Trevor Bauer dropped eng at UCLA because he could not do both baseball and engineering. There are a handful of other programs but not many, anyone who thinks otherwise does not know what they are talking about.

[Spence]

When my son was being recruited we found that the only D1 schools that would accommodate engineering/science schedules were Stanford and UCDavis. Both programs allowed for afternoon lab classes. All of the other D1's that he was recruited by did not. Trevor Bauer dropped eng at UCLA because he could not do both baseball and engineering. There are a handful of other programs but not many, anyone who thinks otherwise does not know what they are talking about.

Some schools are more accomodating than others. That is true. But that's not a limitation that necessarily has to be there in D3...it's imposed by the coach.

But regardless, it's advisable to take as many afternoon or night classes in fall and summer as you can if you're a ballplayer. That's just good sense.

So did he end up going to Stanford or UC Davis?

[PNeal7]

That is a very good point. Some programs and coaches are more accomdating to players academic schedules than others. I can really only speak for CNU, which isn't a good example because we are mainly referring to D1 and/or D2 here, but CNU's Coaching Staff would always let a kid out for class, regardless of whether it was the Fall or Spring Semester. Again, this is a bad example because players at the D3 level aren't getting paid scholarship money to play the game.

Another issue is the professors in the classroom. Some are very open to the idea of having an athlete and knowing they will miss several classes, while others resent athletes and are less willing to help a kid make up for lost classroom time. Even at such a small school as CNU we had professors who would not extend a helping hand to an athlete who missed a few days.

Let's just put it this way: Collegiate baseball players put in a ton of time, both athletically and academically, to try and be successful at both (obviously some could care less about grades and just try to maintain a GPA high enough to stay on the team). This is true accross all divisions.

[narch]

And I'm sure there aren't any conflicting anecdotes at all. Pretty good school named after a railroad tycoon out west has a baseball program some have heard of.

i'm certain that there are conflicting anecdotes, but i can assure you that from where i sit, i don't hear many of them (and i hear much more than the single anecdote given...i chose that particular one because of the source) - i don't think there are many d1 coaches who are going to be excited about their star athlete singing in multiple vocal ensembles, holding an office in student government, leading student organizations, or playing another sport, yet those things are commonplace at the d3 level (there is a higher percentage of 2 sport athletes in d3 than there are in d1 and d2 combined) - part of the reason this is possible is the fact that d3 schools don't play as many games and/or travel the great distances that d1's do and part is due to the d3 philosophy that student-athletes should do these things - you've spent a great deal of time debating the ability to schedule more games (and i haven't seen anyone disagree that it could be done), but you've yet to address your philosophical differences with the d3 ethos