NE Region General Questions

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

What incentive is there for a good WPI team to schedule up?

The way the tournament bids come down, a 23-3 squad with a terrible schedule is still more likely to get a Pool C bid after a first round conference tournament loss than a 20-6 team with a good schedule.

They've already got a reputation.  Go 24-1 every year and enjoy your national tournament.

It may not be great for the game or for player development, but it's good for the program to be in the tournament every year.

I want to see them schedule up, but you also have to realize that a team like WPI isn't exactly high on anyone's radar as an opponent either.

[WPI89]

First off - everybody slow down with the scheduling up talk.  Last year WPI had 7 tourney teams on their schedule.  The year before that when they did not get an at large - they had played 9 teams that got in the big tourney and beat 7 of them!  This year (I think) 6 teams were in the tournament last year and virtually all of them are having down years (so yes this year the schedule is very very weak).  I do not know why WPI and Amherst or Williams or Midd have stopped playing -  but I do not think it is a one way street.  Until very recently (I'd say the last 2 years) - it was sort of a no win situation for the NESCAC big 3 - one of those - bad if you lose, but expected if you win.

As far as the rankings - be careful about comparing schools to the last 5 years - this is a ranking for this year.  While I believe Amherst would likely win a best of 7 series against WPI, that does not mean they should be ranked higher.  Neutral site - 7 games - does anyone here really thing Witchita State would beat Kansas 4 out of 7?  I sure don't - but I would have them ranked higher right now until proven otherwise.

Hoops Fan - ranking WPI 5 in the Northeast is silly.  Watch a game - judge this team (this year).  If you are basing it on the Tufts score - remember that was an 18 point game with 5 minutes left - to Tufts credit - they battled back (yes with out their big player I know).

I'd say the most likely outcome of the season is WPI posting a gaudy record, winning 1 NCAA game and then losing a tough second rounder to Dickinson or Magnus or Purchase or someone of that ilk.  But until then - I am going to enjoy the ride.

PS - I have to stop writing or someone will mistake this for a NESCAC post 

[middhoops]

First off - everybody slow down with the scheduling up talk.  Last year WPI had 7 tourney teams on their schedule.  The year before that when they did not get an at large - they had played 9 teams that got in the big tourney and beat 7 of them!  This year (I think) 6 teams were in the tournament last year and virtually all of them are having down years (so yes this year the schedule is very very weak).  I do not know why WPI and Amherst or Williams or Midd have stopped playing -  but I do not think it is a one way street.  Until very recently (I'd say the last 2 years) - it was sort of a no win situation for the NESCAC big 3 - one of those - bad if you lose, but expected if you win.

As far as the rankings - be careful about comparing schools to the last 5 years - this is a ranking for this year.  While I believe Amherst would likely win a best of 7 series against WPI, that does not mean they should be ranked higher.  Neutral site - 7 games - does anyone here really thing Witchita State would beat Kansas 4 out of 7?  I sure don't - but I would have them ranked higher right now until proven otherwise.

Hoops Fan - ranking WPI 5 in the Northeast is silly.  Watch a game - judge this team (this year).  If you are basing it on the Tufts score - remember that was an 18 point game with 5 minutes left - to Tufts credit - they battled back (yes with out their big player I know).

I'd say the most likely outcome of the season is WPI posting a gaudy record, winning 1 NCAA game and then losing a tough second rounder to Dickinson or Magnus or Purchase or someone of that ilk.  But until then - I am going to enjoy the ride.

PS - I have to stop writing or someone will mistake this for a NESCAC post 

Please be more specific.  Lengthy posts are primarily an Amherst thing.

[pjunito]

WPI, I completely agree with everything you said.

The best part of college basketball is that it isn't a series.. It is a one game playoff. Anyone can win any game. Winning 20 games is a tough thing to do any year.. so Kudos to WPI for approaching another 20 win year.

I think we are giving the NESCAC a little too much credit this year. I don't think Mid is as good as they were a few years ago. I think Williams is not as good as people think they are. They have one impressive win.

I can't wait until next Wednesday to see what the rankings look like.

[WPI89]

PPS:  My rankings

1)  WPI
2)  Amherst (I would be fine with them up 1 but had to make my point)
3)  Williams
4)  Magnus - saw them in person last week against Elms.  Very deep - 9 guys play major minutes - zero defense but on any given night could beat anybody
5)  Babson/Bowden

[amh63]

WPI 89 .... Nice to hear from you in your latest post.  Some emotions .  Still, should not pick on your elders .  Personally, I have moved away from polls of all kind.  The final polls, regional ones are the important ones...to determine post season selection and where one goes to play the first NCAA game.  I think several of the earlier posters on the subject were really saying that the SOS of WPI may hurt their post season placement.
Me, I am even planning on the possibility of Amherst going to WPI for a game...it happened before.
See some of the my earlier posts on the NEWMAC board.  Of course, I expect Amherst to prevail in the game.

Middhoops...I think WPI's post was directed at Amherst since Panthernation has left the scene.

[pjunito]

WPI.. you are right Albertus plays 0 defense... But I think it is because they are more concerned with scoring at this point... They have the players who can play defense when they want. Interesting to see how their defense is in late February.

[GnacBballFan]

PPS:  My rankings

1)  WPI
2)  Amherst (I would be fine with them up 1 but had to make my point)
3)  Williams
4)  Magnus - saw them in person last week against Elms.  Very deep - 9 guys play major minutes - zero defense but on any given night could beat anybody
5)  Babson/Bowden

WPI, albertus played that elms game without their top player and preseason all American honorable mention Darius Watson. Think they woulda looked a little more impressive had he played

[WPI89]

I see I got a couple of dings - that should help my street cred if I breakdown in Worcester and have to walk to Harrington!

Amh63 - funny that when the schedules came out - I took a shot at Amherst's soft schedule and it is going to turn out that WPI's opponents are even softer this year!  Will be a fun next 4 weeks and then all the tourneys.

I do believe the time Amherst came to WPI was because of the male/female conflict up at Amherst.  You guys were a clear favorite even at our gym.  Love to see you this year, but if both team's keep winning - maybe that wouldn't have to be until a 3rd round game?

Lots of hops yet to be played.

[WPI89]

GNAC - I am aware and should have mentioned they were playing without Watson - and I was duly impressed - the game was NEVER in doubt and you got the clear impression that Magnus could score at will.  I am a Magnus follower as Coach Oliver did some youth AAU coaching that involved my kids.  The program is great to watch - they have a very definitive style and will be a nightmare matchup.

Punto - yes they are certainly athletic enough to play excellent D - quite frankly, I really hope they get one of the NESCAC teams in a potential second round game and not WPI.......but that is looking waaaay to far ahead.

[pjunito]

WPI...

I don't want to play WPI early.. I like you guys.. lol.

I think this Albertus team will fair better against a NESCAC team (outside of Amherst) then the 2012 team versus Midd. I think it would be fun to play one of them if Albertus makes it to a second round or any round for that matter.

[GnacBballFan]

WPI,

Coach Oliver is recruiting your kids at a young age, sendem on over when they graduate high school lol

[ECSUalum]

1. Amherst
2. Albertus Magnus
3. WPI
4. Williams
5. Bowdoin
6. Babson
7. MIT
8. ECSU
9. Springfield/Middlebury
10. Johnson and Wales

[mass_d3fan]

WPI89

I did not mean to raise the ire of the group, I was just trying to be fair since I got on MIT a couple of years back where outside the conference they were not scheduling much different than the years when they were doormats.  You know I support the Engineers wholeheartedly, but it is time for them to push forward and take that next step.  I want to see them break through the second round barrier and go even further.  The experience of playing teams that have been consistently getting to the Sweet 16 and beyond can only help.  To be honest, how would losing to one of the big 3 or 4 of the NESCAC hurt (as opposed to losing to Castleton)?
While winning 20+ and then bowing out in the 2nd round is still a very good year, the goal now should be to compete for the national title (Bartley has even stated this on the Hoopsville show a couple of times over the past few years), especially when you are being looked at from the eyes of the poll voters as a team that is now in that discussion again.  Why would you settle for losing your 2nd game in the tournament?

"What incentive is there for a good WPI team to schedule up?"

The experience of playing these high-caliber programs can only help a team in that is looking to go deep into March. I would say over the last few years that Williams, Amherst & Middlebury have definitely benefited from playing each other.

So I guess my question would be, what is the harm that would come from WPI playing an Amherst,Williams...etc.  Williams lost to Amherst the first time and dropped from 5th to 10th, after the second loss they fell from 9th to 11th. These losses have not destroyed the Ephs season.  If you fear that losing to another top club in your region is going to damage your chances at getting an at large bid, then I would say you are certainly not serious about contending for a national title.

Even in D1, we see more and of the best teams playing each other.  I do realize that the single biggest driving factor is money at that level, but be honest, would you sit down and watch Duke, Kansas, or Michigan St. play Florida Atlantic or Towson?  Or would you rather see Duke Vs Michigan St or Kansas Vs Kentucky? 

Also before I forget, Congratulations to Sam Longwell for being named NEWMAC Player of the Week.  He is the first WPI player to garner the award this season.  Sam is having a fantastic season and should be POY if he keeps this up.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I think WPI is probably at a level where it makes sense for Amherst or Williams to play them, although WPI is going to have to make the offer.  The NESCAC will not come calling.

At the same time, Pool C selection is a big deal.  There are many years where top teams get left out because of freak losses.  The difference between D1 and D3 is that they've got 36 at-large bids; we have less than 20, with 100 extra teams to choose from.

It benefits WPI for everyone to assume they're a top two team in the region, rather than knowing they're really 4th or 5th.

I recognize what you've said about contending for the title, and it's always a possibility (I would have had them #1 in the region this year with Coppola), but I think there's still one more step in the process.  You've got to show long-term dominance beyond the second round.  They need a resume of second weekend play - and beyond just one recruiting class.

Everyone is downright shocked if Amherst doesn't make it out of the first weekend - no matter who they match up with.  People might say a first weekend WPI loss is an upset, but they're not yet at the level of perennial power.

I hope they get there; they're very close.  The more teams in the region with a national profile the better.