NE Region General Questions

[7express]

I think they'll be higher this year then they usually are.  Outside of Babson, nobody in New England really stands out.  I'd be shocked if Albertus ended up lower than 4th. I'd guess:

1) Babson
2) Albertus
3) Bates
4) Trinity
5) Eastern Connecticut
6) Amherst
7) WPI
8) RI College
9) MIT
10) Springfield
11) Williams
12) Nichols
With Southern Vermont & Bowdoin close.  I think the top 8 will be on the list somewhere after that it's anyones guess.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I don't see how MIT will be on there.  15-5, SOS isn't nearly as good as some of the other 15 win teams.  Just not enough room right now.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Rankings are out:

1   Bates   17-4   17-4
2   Babson   19-2   19-2
3   Amherst   17-5   17-5
4   Eastern Connecticut   17-4   17-4
5   Trinity (Conn.)   17-4   18-5
6   Rhode Island College   15-6   15-6
7   Springfield   15-6   15-6
8   WPI   17-4   17-4
9   Bowdoin   15-6   15-6
10   Albertus Magnus   19-1   19-1
11   Williams   13-8   13-8

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Regional Rankings are out: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2015/02/11/first-regional-rankings-released-today/

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Rankings are out:

1   Bates   17-4   17-4
2   Babson   19-2   19-2
3   Amherst   17-5   17-5
4   Eastern Connecticut   17-4   17-4
5   Trinity (Conn.)   17-4   18-5
6   Rhode Island College   15-6   15-6
7   Springfield   15-6   15-6
8   WPI   17-4   17-4
9   Bowdoin   15-6   15-6
10   Albertus Magnus   19-1   19-1
11   Williams   13-8   13-8

I got all twelve correct, just not always the placement.  They really dinged Albertus' SOS and they gave Amherst the benefit of the doubt.

[WPI89]

I am usually the first to bow at the altar of NESCAC - I have always referred to them as NEWMACs big brother - but these rankings are waaaaaay biased toward history, rather than the present.

The message is clear WPI - better win the NEWMAC - I see at least 3 "blocks" ahead in this ranking.

Seems to me SOS is broken - can someone explain it to me?  Is beating 2 "10-10" teams the same for your SOS as beating a 19-1 team and a 1-19 team?

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Trust me having talked with the national committee chair... they aren't talking history... otherwise Bates and Trinity with no history wouldn't be that high. And they are just the first week's numbers... they honestly won't mean much by next week.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I am usually the first to bow at the altar of NESCAC - I have always referred to them as NEWMACs big brother - but these rankings are waaaaaay biased toward history, rather than the present.

The message is clear WPI - better win the NEWMAC - I see at least 3 "blocks" ahead in this ranking.

Seems to me SOS is broken - can someone explain it to me?  Is beating 2 "10-10" teams the same for your SOS as beating a 19-1 team and a 1-19 team?

It's very complicated and even the trained math guys who spoke with the NCAA stat people over the summer, remain a bit confused.  There's a long explanation on the Pool C thread on the Multi-Region Board.

But, what happens is: Opponents' winning percentage counts for 2/3rds of the number and Opponents' Opponents' winning percentage counts the other third.  There is also a multiplier added at some point (.75 for home games, 1.25 for road games).

The NESCAC almost always benefits disproportionately because they don't play the double round robin - they both miss out on taking extra losses to good conference teams, but they also miss out on the SOS dropping of playing bad conference teams twice.  In addition, they can schedule out of conference games against the likes of RIC and Southern Vermont and Nichols - teams from lesser conferences who will have good records.  This also helps to boost the SOS of conference games, since every team can load up on wins out of conference.

It's not unfair, necessarily, since every league could do it, but it does give them an advantage.  This is beyond even the inherent advantage NE Region teams have in having so many teams and conferences close by to play.  If you look at, like the Great Lakes or Central region, the SOS range is very low, since they pretty much all play each other.

The NESCAC generally benefits from its situation on a lot of levels.

To be fair, though, these are the same numbers (and apparent biases) that got four NEWMAC teams into the tournament last year.  No way that would have happened with just the eye test from the committee.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Let's also key on a point there... conferences could change their schedules and play more non-conference games... it is a conference decision.

Also, it isn't like the NESCAC isn't playing double-games... it is just happening with less frequency based on the Little Three and the Maine Three doing it but others not doing it.

[WPI89]

Bates 17-4   vs  WPI's 17-4

Top wins:

Bates:  Babson, Tufts, Williams, Middlebury?  (am I missing anyone?)
WPI:    Babson, Tufts, Williams, Chicago

Losses: 

Bates:  Emory, Birmingham Southern, Trinity, Amherst
WPI:  Cabrini, MIT, Springfield, Babson

A case could be made for Bates for sure - but #1 vs #8.  Not seeing it.

Same for many in between.  RIC at 6 is silly.  Magnus would beat them right now by 30.  And while I am terrified of the Amherst name - just not seeing how this version of the team is 3?

I am done now.......sorry.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

They don't compare records, unless there are common opponents or it's against teams they're ranked against.

Ultimately, Bates has a .616 SOS and WPI has a .532.  It's a big difference.


I guessed Bates at #3 and WPI at #7 - but the WPI ranking is right, for sure.  Wins and SOS make things pretty clear.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Let's remember... vRRO isn't a factor this week. That will change rankings a lot next week.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Let's remember... vRRO isn't a factor this week. That will change rankings a lot next week.

Sure, but head-to-head certainly mattered this week.  Amherst over EConn and Trinity ahead of Springfield were both clear head-to-head decisions.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Yes... head-to-head did - and should - play a factor when possible.

[Ferraro13]

What a freaking joke, Albertus 10th. Spare me the reasons why. Such a f**ked system