NE Region General Questions

[NY24]

help me understand the talent difference between D2 and D3...

[NY24]

Beyond academics...how do Williams players compare to say Westfield or Salem State players

[BornBalla]

After seeing many of the best teams in D3 from this region and a few near by regions and seeing many of this region's D2 teams, I think the biggest difference is the size and athleticism of the players and not necessarily the skill set. I have seen many kids get D2 scholarships just because they are a bigger kid and another get looked over because he's "too small"(ie kid might be a 5-9 guard or 6-3/6-4 forward). Scholarship level is definitely concerned with the tale of the tape. The other difference is the academic reputations. Many D2 or even D1 level kids will opt to go to NESCAC schools(or even a few NEWMACS). Having seen past Amherst,Williams, and Trinity teams, I saw many kids who could easily have done well at Northeast Region's D2 teams. Just my thoughts

[BornBalla]

Must admit I only saw Williams once last year on a webcast but have seen Salem St. several times over last few years. I've seen Westfield St. a few times as well and would not compare them to Salem St. at all in terms of player characteristics. Here's my thoughts:
Westfield St. usually has one or two "basketball players" and then the rest of the guys are big bruiser types or specialists(ie a shooter). They will physically try to beat you down with physical play and tough defense. They don't seem to be offensively that diverse but are still very effective.

Salem St. simply gets the largest group of talented players in the MASCAC. They will often get scholarship kids who slip for one reason or another. A few years ago they had this 6-5 guard(last name was Downey I think) who was nasty. Salem will play hard nosed defense but usually has a multitude of offensive weapons who can score the ball.

As with many NESCACs, I think the stereotype of Williams is a bunch of "heady" players who beat you with high IQ, toughness, and great perimeter shooting. I think Williams,Trinity, Amherst, and Middlebury(last year) have shown that they all have super talented kids who are athletic as well( and rarely get credit for that). I heard that Williams runs a version of the Princeton offense(in the past Amherst has run some set from the Princeton as well) so people equate the offense with only smart players who are not very athletic because of the Princeton teams from Pete Carrill in the 80's & 90's. But several NBA teams have run the Princeton with some of the most athletic people in the world. The biggest differences I have seen with Williams(mainly based off the past) is that they have much more size at all positions and maybe a few less guards than SalemSt.(oh and their grads probably make more upon graduation than the other too)








 

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I've created this board, as I did last season to hold some of the region-wide discussions we start in various places.  This also helps to keep the region page from getting too cluttered.  So if you find your thread gone, it's just been moved to this thread.

[Hugenerd]

According to the National Preseason Poll, here are the Northeast preseason rankings:

1. UMD (9 in top 25, 397 points)
2. Bridgewater State (11, 352)
3. Brandeis (22, 123)
4. Amherst (25, 95)
5. Middlebury (NR, 69)
6. Elms (NR, 38)
7. RIC (NR, 13)
7t. Williams (NR, 13)
9. Salem State (NR, 11)
10. WPI (NR, 10)
11. MIT (NR, 3)

[nescac1]

I'd say a more accurate ranking:

1. UMD
2. (tie) Williams / Amherst
4. Brandeis
5. Middlebury
6. WPI
7. Bowdoin
8. Elms
9. Wheaton
10. Bridgewater State

Other possibles: MIT, Salem State, RIC, Trinity, Colby, Emerson

[CCCalum2]

how do you have Bridgewater St at 10 in NE when they are ranked 11 in the COUNTRY?  just curious.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

how do you have Bridgewater St at 10 in NE when they are ranked 11 in the COUNTRY?  just curious.

Check out the box score from the WNEC game.

[nescac1]

After some early season results are in:

1.  UMass Dartmouth -- yes, they lost a game, but that was without their all-american, still have the most talent, deepest roster, and beating Brandeis shows they are for real
2.  Williams -- still a bit up and down, and a few of the veterans have yet to get on track.  But Schultz is playing at an all-american level and Wang and Whittington have really stepped up.  Need to improve defense a bit.  Two quality wins.
3.  Amherst -- when they play Elms will get a better sense.  Tremendous size and athleticism at basically every position, but may have a tough time against quicker teams, without a lot of smaller guards to defend and handle the ball.  If Meehan gets in foul trouble, watch out.  Could easily make an argument for them at number one given their depth and talent. 
4.  Elms -- again, the real test will be against Amherst but they are always tough.
5.  Brandeis -- great top seven but NO depth at all -- will those guys wear down??
6.  MIT -- with huge infusion of talent seem to be for real, but young team will inevitably experience some bumps
7.  WPI -- always in the mix, always falls short in post-season
8.  Colby -- great starting group, questionable depth
9.  Middlebury -- incredible defense, offense is questionable though.  No real go-to guy on O but they are gonna shut down a lot of teams especially once Edwards comes back. 
10. Eastern Conn -- two wins over NESCAC squads
11. Bowdoin -- I think they will eventually rise higher.  Sleeper team with great inside-outside balance. 

Others to watch: Wesleyan (opposite of Midd, all offense, no defense), Wheaton (MA), Bridgewater St., Westfield St., Roger Williams

[leelowlang]

For whatever it is worth this early:

Conference Winning Percentages:

1.  NEWMAC - .700, 21-9 - MIT and WPI 4-0
2.  NESCAC - .643, 18-10 - Middlebury and Williams 3-0, Amherst and Colby 2-0
3.  LEC - .594, 19-13 - Eastern Connecticut St. 4-0
4.  GNAC - .483, 14-15 - Mount Ida and St. Joseph (ME) 2-0
5.  MASCAC - .482, 13-14 - Westfield St. 4-0
6.  NECC - .469, 15-17 - Wheelock 4-0, Elms 3-0
7.  CCC - .393, 22-34 - Roger Williams 4-0
8.  NAC - .370, 10-17 - Thomas 4-0
*Brandeis - .666, 2-1
*UMPI - .000, 0-3

Much of anything to be taken from that?  MIT impressive, even with outstanding newcomers, start considering Bartolotta graduation.  Wheelock is eye brow raising and has legit wins.  Feels like there might be a relatively significant seperation from contenders to those in the bottom group in the NESCAC.

Looking forward to the rest of the semester...

[thatdude 30]

After some early season results are in:

1.  UMass Dartmouth -- yes, they lost a game, but that was without their all-american, still have the most talent, deepest roster, and beating Brandeis shows they are for real
2.  Williams -- still a bit up and down, and a few of the veterans have yet to get on track.  But Schultz is playing at an all-american level and Wang and Whittington have really stepped up.  Need to improve defense a bit.  Two quality wins.
3.  Amherst -- when they play Elms will get a better sense.  Tremendous size and athleticism at basically every position, but may have a tough time against quicker teams, without a lot of smaller guards to defend and handle the ball.  If Meehan gets in foul trouble, watch out.  Could easily make an argument for them at number one given their depth and talent. 
4.  Elms -- again, the real test will be against Amherst but they are always tough.
5.  Brandeis -- great top seven but NO depth at all -- will those guys wear down??
6.  MIT -- with huge infusion of talent seem to be for real, but young team will inevitably experience some bumps
7.  WPI -- always in the mix, always falls short in post-season
8.  Colby -- great starting group, questionable depth
9.  Middlebury -- incredible defense, offense is questionable though.  No real go-to guy on O but they are gonna shut down a lot of teams especially once Edwards comes back. 
10. Eastern Conn -- two wins over NESCAC squads
11. Bowdoin -- I think they will eventually rise higher.  Sleeper team with great inside-outside balance. 

Others to watch: Wesleyan (opposite of Midd, all offense, no defense), Wheaton (MA), Bridgewater St., Westfield St., Roger Williams

I agree with u Nescac1. Only thing is that UMD has had there all-american every game except the 1st game. The problem is he is still recovering from off season surgery so he is not in his all american status just yet. Once he gets healthy UMD will prob be the best in the northeast hands down. I also think that East Conn has a chance to move up to that 8 or 9 lot if they keep playing the way they have been playing

[Hugenerd]

According to the Week 1 national poll, this is how the Northeast looks:

1. UMD (11 in the top 25, 319 points, -78 points)
2. Amherst (13, 259, +164)
3. Middlebury (15, 200, +131)
4. Bridgewater State (19, 118, -234)
5. Elms (20, 113, +75)
6. Brandeis (23, 97, -26)
7. Williams (29, 67, +54)
8. WPI (32, 37, +27)
9. MIT (34, 21, +18)

No others received votes, meaning Salem State and RIC both went from receiving votes (although not a lot), to having none.

Biggest gainers were Amherst (+164, or up 6.5 spots on the average posters poll), Elms (+75, up 3 spots per posters poll), and Williams (+54, +2 spots per posters poll).  Biggest losers were Bridgewater (-234, or down 9.5 spots on the avearge posters poll), UMD (-78, or down 3 spots per posters poll), and Brandeis (-26, or down 1 spot per posters poll).

[thatdude 30]

According to the Week 1 national poll, this is how the Northeast looks:

1. UMD (11 in the top 25, 319 points, -78 points)
2. Amherst (13, 259, +164)
3. Middlebury (15, 200, +131)
4. Bridgewater State (19, 118, -234)
5. Elms (20, 113, +75)
6. Brandeis (23, 97, -26)
7. Williams (29, 67, +54)
8. WPI (32, 37, +27)
9. MIT (34, 21, +18)

No others received votes, meaning Salem State and RIC both went from receiving votes (although not a lot), to having none.

Biggest gainers were Amherst (+164, or up 6.5 spots on the average posters poll), Elms (+75, up 3 spots per posters poll), and Williams (+54, +2 spots per posters poll).  Biggest losers were Bridgewater (-234, or down 9.5 spots on the avearge posters poll), UMD (-78, or down 3 spots per posters poll), and Brandeis (-26, or down 1 spot per posters poll).

This poll makes sense but I dont get how amherst gains 164 pts from being 2-0 and not beating anyone good. THat doesnt quite make sense to me

[Hugenerd]

My guess is that it was NE voters switching votes from Brdigewater to Amherst.  The votes that Bridgewater and and UMD lost (-312 combined) went directly to Amherst and Middlebury (+295 combined), it appears.