MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Titan Q]

"The Massey rankings have always put the WIAC as the toughest conference followed by the CCIW.  Most would agree with that opionion."


As do most CCIW fans, Martin.  I don't think it's accurate to suggest that the regular posters on this board think the College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin is the best Division III men's basketball league.  I honestly think the credible, regular posters here regularly acknowlege the WIAC as the best conference in Division III...as I do every week on Hoopsville.  I think most agree with Scott Trost's quote from the IWUhoops.com season preview:


"It's a great Division III league - after the Wisconsin state league (WIAC), I think the CCIW is the toughest," said Trost.

Now, whether the CCIW is better than the OAC, NJAC, and others that are in that "second best" debate, I really have no idea, but those same Massey Ratings you refer to usually do have the CCIW rated #2 behind the WIAC each season.

Are CCIW fans "laudatory" about the conference?  Sure they are.  But that's more of a pride thing than anything else.  This is a very old conference with a lot of history, tradition, great rivalries, and strong fan support across the entire league.  I've had the conversation with my dad regarding how much more fun it seems to follow a league like the CCIW where people go to the games, people talk about the games, and people care about the games, as opposed to the NAIA conference St. Xavier is in (my parents follow SXU), for example, where that's just not the case for the most part.  If the result of those factors is fans being laudatory on an internet message board, I can live with it.

This CCIW fan thinks a lot of the conference and looks forward to another great January and February.

[augie_superfan]

Martin, I think the discussion should be about if the CCIW can get 3 teams in.  I don't want to jinx the CCIW or anything but with the expanded tournament this year, a second team should easily get in barring a few of the top teams being decimated by injuries.  Your arguements about the WIAC and CCIW in the past few years don't make too much sense because I would be willing to bet that with the extra 11 playoff spots that all of those 2nd place teams that were left out before, would've made the field had there been 59 slots back then.  It is no doubt that getting 2 teams in the field has been difficult in the past but I'm certain that in a majority of those years, atleast 1 CCIW team was "on the bubble", thus now making it in the new 59-team field.  

Since 2000, the 2nd place team in the CCIW has averaged slightly over 10 conference wins.  I think 10-4 added to a solid non-conference record of 9-2, making a final record of 19-6 would get that 2nd place team in especially when considering this was accomplished in one of the toughest conferences in the nation.

[Titan Q]

As for getting 3 teams in, remember there are 10 more Pool C bids this year.  I do think some leagues have a shot to get 3 in if the numbers work out right.  By numbers, of course, I mean things like in-region winning %, Quality of Wins Index, etc.  (Any reference to possible final overall records is pretty useless...just the in-region games count.)

Any reference to teams left out the last few years (WIAC, CCIW runners-up) is kind of misleading, as we're dealing with a much bigger Pool C field.    I recommending listening to the archived Hoopsville interview with Steve Larson, who explained that the committee did some mock projecting of the 2004-05 tournament field using the 2005-06 numbers, and the "big conferences" faired very well...

http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/

I think this has potential to be one of those years in the CCIW.  There is a chance that 3 CCIW teams will fare very well in the numbers game come selection Sunday - sorry selection Monday.  I believe our 3 best will be IWU, Augie, and Elmhurst and in the end, this will all come down to just how good North Central, Carthage, Millikin, and Wheaton are and how that top 3 does vs these four. 

Elmhurst already has 2 in-region losses...that is a bit of a problem for the Bluejays, but the Hanover win helps.  For the most part, every in-region game is really important.  Games like IWU vs Chicago and IWU vs Wash U may not seem that big, but in the end those are key games.

[John Gleich]

Consider that the WIAC ... has not had two teams in the tournament since 2000.    

Actually, the WIAC got two teams in 2002-2003.  UWSP won the reg season conf title running away (by 3 games), but Oshkosh beat them at home in the conf tourney semi's.  They then proceeded to beat Whitewater on a 3 pt buzzer beater to take the conf tourney title, en route to an Elite 8 berth. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

Mr. Ypsi - you have to consider what others think of the CCIW.  Many do not appreciate the laudatory view that CCIW fans have of their conference.  The Massey rankings have always put the WIAC as the toughest conference followed by the CCIW.  Most would agree with that opionion.  UWSP has won the previous two national championships.  In both 2004 and 2005 it was not the regular season champion of the WIAC.  In 2004, UWSP finished second to River Falls.  UWSP won the conference tournament.  UWRF, with a 20-7 record and All American Rich Melzer, did not make the tournament.

In 2005, UWSP tied for first in the regular season with Plateville.  UWP had the number one seed in the WIAC so with no tournament, UWP gets the WIAC AQ.  UWSP won the WIAC tournament.  UWP, with a 19-7 record and regular season co-champion, stayed home.

In 2004, Wheaton finished second to IWU in the CCIW with an overall 21-4 record.  Wheaton did not make the field.  In 2003, three teams tied atop the CCIW with 11-3 records, IWU (21-4), Augustana (20-5) and Carthage (19-6).  Only IWU went to the tournament.

I think the more appropriate discussion is whether or not the CCIW gets a second team into the tournament - not 3 or 4.

Martin,

As I have stated on many an occasion, WIAC is #1, CCIW is #2, year-in and year-out (though in any particular year, some other conference may sneak in).  The WIAC, like the CCIW, is a deep, double round-robin conference; cannibalizing their own is a problem for both conferences in terms of pool C bids.  With expansion, I'd expect both conferences to REGULARLY get two bids, and not infrequently, three bids.

sac is right that the NESCAC is the most likely to get four bids sooner than anyone else (if ANYONE does) - they are NOT double round-robin and are NOT very deep, but usually have quality at the top.  Perhaps the NCAC could also be added, if any teams step up behind Woo and Witt (though I believe they are also double round-robin).

And, as iwumichigander pointed out, I was responding to a question about the CCIW (on CCIW Chat) - I was not meaning to dis any other conference!  Geez, you'd think posters from the almost universally acclaimed #1 conference would have thicker skins!

[sac]

The NCAC will never get 4 teams in the tournament.

[David Collinge]

The NCAC will never get 4 teams in the tournament.

Heaven forfend! 

We might get four teams into a swimming tournament, but for hoops I'm afraid the field would have to expand to about 200 teams. 

Aside to sac:  the MIAA will never get 4 teams in either.  nyah-nyah. 

[kenoshamark]

augiedad,

Don't worry, Bosko has a plan....

I will get a chance to finally see Carthage play tomorrow night.  Although their current record is 1-5, this team has to much talent not to turn it around.   Remember, Schlemm hasn't played yet and if he plays to the level of his ability, he will be a load for anyone to cover.

As far as the transfer situation, it is somewhat unique in that two of the transfers (both starters) are Kenosha kids who were recruited by Carthage out of H.S.   I just view it differently when local kids come home to play vs picking up a junior college player or a D1 transfer.  

Carthage has a very, very good sophomore class that is over 10 deep with maybe their two best players (Bowens and Jeffery) and a solid junior class with Schlemm, Hart, Hood and Thompson who are all in the regular rotation.  

I will admit there were a couple of years where players that were brought in either didn't pan out, left school, or just stopped playing that really affected last year and this year's class,  Still, I think the future is very bright with the two classes I mentioned.

I'll have more to comment on after I see them play tomorrow.  

[Jim Matson]

martin, Wheaton has never done well in the Tourney - when we could even get in.  2004 was the one year we could have done well had we been in, but that final loss to Wesleyan killed us (it really shouldn't have).  Last year was tough as we hosted Calvin in the 1st round...

[diehardfan]

The NCAC will never get 4 teams in the tournament.

Heaven forfend! 

We might get four teams into a swimming tournament, but for hoops I'm afraid the field would have to expand to about 200 teams. 

Aside to sac:  the MIAA will never get 4 teams in either.  nyah-nyah. 

comedic genius  that's one of the many reasons why I like ya david... that or the fact that you taunt like a six yr old boy playing pickup baseball on the street

the MIAA is a whole lot more likely to deserve four teams in the tourney than the NCAC! 

[Jim Matson]

As Paul posted earlier, Joe Bean, Wheaton's mens soccer coach, is retiring at the end of next year.  Joe is one of those amazing coaches who has done it all, including winning a couple of national championships and getting himself a ton of national awards.  He also holds the NCAA all-division wins record, passing up his D2 pal and a D1 coach a couple of years back.  Coach Bean has done what few CCIW coaches have done - put their school's program on the national map.  He will be missed.

Here are a few other CCIW coaches that have made a similar national impact:

Coach Reade - Augie football
Coach Carius - North Central track
Coach Bridges - Illinois Wesleyan basketball
Coach McCarrell - North Park basketball

These guys were the real deal!  (in Carius's case, he still is the real deal!)

[mr_b]

Final score from Foster & Kedzie: Lake Forest 66, North Park 63

[mr_b]

Tonight's game was close throughout with fewer turnovers (still too many) and far fewer fouls.  North Park led at the half, 34-32, but Lake Forest came out with four treys and a two to start the second half.  The Vikings clawed back to get within four, but they couldn't pull even as time expired.

A few stats from the contest:

Ed Whitaker led the Vikes with 15, including four three-pointers.  Jay Alexander had 12 and Eric Samuelson chipped in 9.  Last week's killer B's, Brett Mathisen and Bjorn Berg, were shut out by the Foresters.

Lake Forest was paced by Brad Wehner (16), Franklyn Beckford (14), and Greg Klos (13).

[Gregory Sager]

Lake Forest 66
North Park 63

Ed Whitaker led the Vikings with 15 points, and Jay Alexander added 12 off of the bench.

The story for this tough loss really came down to five elements:

* Lake Forest, after trailing 32-30 at the half, came out and drilled four treys in the first three or four minutes, building up a 46-38 lead very quickly. Their lead would stay between four and eight points for almost the entire second half. The Foresters were lights-out for most of the game, in spite of the fact that NPU played fairly decent D.

* The Foresters did an outstanding job of taking CCIW Player of the Week Bjorn Berg out of the equation. He only got off three shots all night, and none of them went in.

* LFC coach Chris Conger played an eight-man rotation that featured six seniors, a junior, and a sophomore. Compared to NPU's kiddie corps, the experience factor was lopsided in LFC's favor. Experience is usually what wins close games, and the Foresters' execution at the end of this one was all a matter of having a lot more games under their belts than did their NPU counterparts.

* Brett Mathisen played the worst game of his life -- zero points, and only three rebounds on top of that. He was chipping paint off of the inside of the rim all night. It was excruciating to watch.

* With LFC up 62-58 in the final minute, the Park got a big defensive stop and came down the floor and ran a great offense, setting up Ed Whitaker for a trey that brought the Park to within a point at 62-61 with 22 seconds left. They immediately fouled senior Greg Klos, who calmly stepped to the line and swished both ends of a 1-and-1, restoring the Foresters' lead to three with 16 seconds left. And then, alas, Jason Gordon made a big gaffe. With shooters Alexander, Whitaker, and Berg in the game, Gordon brought the ball up the floor and then jacked a 24-footer with a hand in his face with a full seven seconds left on the clock. He didn't even look at his teammates; it was obvious that he was going to take the shot all the way up the floor. It rimmed out, LFC rebounded the ball, made both FTs, and left the Park to get a meaningless Glen Woodside putback at the buzzer to make the final 66-63.

[Mr. Ypsi]

As Paul posted earlier, Joe Bean, Wheaton's mens soccer coach, is retiring at the end of next year.  Joe is one of those amazing coaches who has done it all, including winning a couple of national championships and getting himself a ton of national awards.  He also holds the NCAA all-division wins record, passing up his D2 pal and a D1 coach a couple of years back.  Coach Bean has done what few CCIW coaches have done - put their school's program on the national map.  He will be missed.

Here are a few other CCIW coaches that have made a similar national impact:

Coach Reade - Augie football
Coach Carius - North Central track
Coach Bridges - Illinois Wesleyan basketball
Coach McCarrell - North Park basketball

These guys were the real deal!  (in Carius's case, he still is the real deal!)

While I agree that Coach Bridges deserves all the credit in the world, I think he actually only ratcheded up a notch what Coach Horenberger had already achieved.  Now if Coach Trost can manage one more notch, perhaps the Shirk can begin to compete with the Crackerbox for national banners!