MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[mwunder]

Didn't see the Carthage-North Central game---But with a Little Bosko shooting 27 FT's, it would appear that Flopfest was in high gear and Big Bosko was velcroed to any official who would pass by him on the sideline

Maybe leave the passing of judgment to those who actually attended the game?

[mwunder]

Don't understand how going to a zone hurt them worse the defense that they played in the first half---they were outscored by 5 points in each half---

What do some think about Rairdon's gameplan to kind of let Steve do his thing and go off, but just don't let anyone else hurt you? He stated in the article that it was poor coaching to go to a zone, and that's what really hurt them in the second half by letting others get their points

It hurt them because as soon as they went to zone Carthage hit 4 three's in a span of two minutes to make a two point game...a ten point game.  It doesn't say that NC played exclusively "man to man" in the first half and zone the entire second half.

[cardinalfanrochelle]

This is the first CCIW game I have seen that officals were replaced by either professional movers or the CIA bodyguard service. Little Bosko (as referred to in a prior post) was so protected you could have put him in bubble wrap and not one player guarding him would have would have been able to pop a single bubble, he is a talented young man with a good shooting touch, but let him play. The calls for him would have made Ripley's believe it or not. For one player to get 27 shots is hard to swallow, any drive that #21 white jersey had you almost had to hold your breath in anticipation of a call and it usually happened. I understand you take all that is given you, but come on. The foul difference is unreal NCC 10-15 ft & fta Catrhage 33 - 41 ft & fta. NCC had to change game plan with 4 players fouling out, next time you see Carthage play check out the grab and shake that Little Bosko ( as referred to in a prior post) to get free no foul there Come on refs share the wealth

[tjcummingsfan]

Elmhurst   66
North Park 39
     'Jays led 28-18 at the half

It was horrible to watch.  NP couldn't hit a shot, lay-up or jumper to save their lives, I definitely am not looking forward to seeing the fg % from this one. 

Bright spots... defense for the most part, intensity on that end of the floor for probably 35 minutes of the game was really great... watching Burks miss 2 freethrows, I can't imagine anyone'll see that again anytime soon... the look in Jay Alexander's eyes, especially in the 2nd half, he was never ready to give this game up, and I loved that, he had some great blocks, and almost dunked over one of the reserve guards, but he decided to lay it in instead... defense on Ruch, I think he ended up with only 15 (definitely under 20)... any more Greg, Scream, Rob, Mr B?

Dim spots... shooting, it was abysmal... offense against the zone, we may as well have not had guys on the court at some points... Elmhurst's shooting, again, don't want to see the percentages... rebounding, on both ends of the floor (with the possible exception of Jay Alexander), we were 1 and done (to quote Rob Berki) all night on the offensive end, and got smoked even on the defensive end far too often...

we'll have to play a heck of alot better to beat an undoubtedly fired up IWU team who just knocked off Wheaton

How does the team respond?  There are a whole lot of possibilities; giving up, forgetting about the bad night, studying the game film of the bad night and dissecting the mistakes, justifying that their three conference losses are all to nationally ranked teams, etc. 

Something tells me these guys (all of them included) won't allow another debacle like this.  When a team beats you by almost 30 points and they put in their entire jv squad with 4 minutes left, there's not many excuses you can make, especially (as Greg said) considering Elmhurst didn't play their best game.

NP is 1-2 against ranked teams, beating Augie, losing to Wheaton and Elmhurst.  The 3rd loss is against a definitely unranked Millikin.  Come on man, you were even at the Augie game!

[True Basketball Fan]

Anybody think that Carthage will win 10 games in the league?  I just don't see it, even though they are almost halfway there with 9 games left to play.  Their hot shooting, which most likely will not be sustained at the same pace the rest of the year, and their soft defense suggest that.  However, they are much better than I thought they would be, and should be a factor in the CCIW tourney, as they have a great chance of definitely being one of the four teams there.  I still think it will come down to Elmhurst and Augie.  Wheaton has an outside shot, but they travel to Elmhurst on Saturday, and are likely to be 2-4 after Saturday night.  Ouch!

[usee]

While I am sure much credit should go to IWU for their performance against the Thunder last night, Harris, Raymond and company deserve their share of the blame for a very disapointing start to the conference season. Last night, despite Harris' claims of inequity, was a very winnable game and one that the Thunder absolutely should have won (if they had played better). Kent Raymond cannot let a freshman take him out of game like that. Andy Wiele only put up 4 shots? Phil Denham put up 8!! that's ridiculous. Andrew Jahns scored 2 pts on 2 free throws and only put up 3 shots? contrary to what you would have thought going in to that game it was the IWU defense and the Wheaton defense that seemed to control the game. Neither has consistently played great defense this season. Now the Thunder are all but eliminated from this conference race unless they begin a very unlikely run starting at Elmhurst Saturday. The Thunder are simply fighting for respectability at this point.

[Titan Q]

Last night, despite Harris' claims of inequity, was a very winnable game and one that the Thunder absolutely should have won (if they had played better).

I kind of disagree.  I need to see more games play out, but I think there is a good chance that IWU is just simply a better team than Wheaton.  The Titans certainly do not have anything remotely resembling superstar Kent Raymond, but they're deeper and more balanced.  Wheaton is a 3-man team.  After Raymond (22.6 ppg), who is an All-American, and Wiele (14.3 ppg) and Panner (14.7 ppg), who are very good supporting cast members, the Thunder just don't have that much.  Maybe Jahns?  The Titans have 7 players averaging between 6 and 14 points in CCIW play...

Sean Johnson 13.8 (perimeter)
Brett Chamernik 12.3 (post)
Darius Gant 11.3 (post)
Travis Rosenkranz 11.0 (perimeter)
Jordan Morris 9.5 (perimeter)
Sean Dwyer 6.8 (perimeter)
Doug Sexauer 5.8 (post)

IWU has very nice inside/outside balance offensively.  On defense, they're getting better - last night was by far their best defensive effort of the season.

If you erase preseason expectations (Wheaton as a "contender" and IWU as the 7th place team) and just watch the two teams play, I think most would agree that it is at least a push, and if a push, IWU should have won at home last night.  And they did.  Wheaton will be favored at King Arena on Feb. 16.

I don't think last night was an upset.

[Pat Coleman]

This is the first CCIW game I have seen that officals were replaced by either professional movers or the CIA bodyguard service. Little Bosko (as referred to in a prior post) was so protected you could have put him in bubble wrap and not one player guarding him would have would have been able to pop a single bubble, he is a talented young man with a good shooting touch, but let him play. The calls for him would have made Ripley's believe it or not.

I think I just got five across in my Cliche Bingo card. Thanks!

[REDMENFAN]

For those who read the article, prior to last night, Steve's been averaging 10 FT attempts a game, and averaged 9 a game his senior year in high school.  Over the course of those 35 or so ball games, I'd have to say its something he's doing to get to the line, and not refs "protecting him and his bubble wrap."

[iwumichigander]

No one can make it worth your while to read about a 66-39 game like Gregory Sager......no one. 

Agree and looking at the stats, Greg was being rather kind.  NPU scored 20 of its 39 points off 21 Elmhurst turnovers!!

[79jaybird]

Greg, great to talk with you again at the game last night!

Obviously a tough game for the Vikings who I know will play much better Saturday.  I think all the credit should go to Mark Scherrer/Staff and the players for executing because they completely took NPU out of their gameplan.  The way NPU looked after the game is the same way EC looked after Carthage came into our building and upset us. 
I don't think Paul Brenaghen will be as upset with the loss as he will be/is with the effort for the Vikings.  As you mentioned earlier, very few Vikings even appeared to be excited to play.  The crowd?  I mentioned on the air that I thought the Vikings had a DECENT crowd with a bunch of students getting excited and trying to motivate the team.  Hard to get excited though, when the team is anemic and not giving all they can.
As a coach, you can live with a loss and get ready for the next game, however you can't coach and teach effort which has to be generated from the players.

Looking at EC I thought Jared Hintzsche and Robert Strzemp really had a great game rebounding and controlling the paint on both ends.  Ruch and Burks were kept quiet (by their standards) mostly due to the increased activity from these two.  I recall looking at the final stats sheet and noticed 5 Bluejays had 3 or more assists which shows that they really moved the ball well, and "shared the wealth" effectively.

Now if you're Elmhurst, you can't come back to RAF on Saturday and lay an egg against Wheaton.  They need this effort each and every time on the court.

[cardinalfanrochelle]

REDMENFAN,
                   Anytime you look at the stats of a team or player then you see a jump by 10 in any area in one game it sends a red flag out and NCC isn't a real physical team with 4 players fouling out, that sir is not the norm. Let Steve have his shots is not a bad plan but you better shut down the others.Add back in the 4 players who fouled out a different outcome would have happened, shame on the hissy officals the game could have been called differently. I heard all summer how physical the CCIW was and then you get a player who goes to the line 27 times in a game, if it was as physical as led to believe Steve would have been in a wheelchair or had a walker at the line.Not once did he get hammered in the lane just little love taps to let him know he was being watched. ::

[mwunder]

REDMENFAN,
                   Anytime you look at the stats of a team or player then you see a jump by 10 in any area in one game it sends a red flag out and NCC isn't a real physical team with 4 players fouling out, that sir is not the norm. Let Steve have his shots is not a bad plan but you better shut down the others.Add back in the 4 players who fouled out a different outcome would have happened, shame on the hissy officals the game could have been called differently. I heard all summer how physical the CCIW was and then you get a player who goes to the line 27 times in a game, if it was as physical as led to believe Steve would have been in a wheelchair or had a walker at the line.Not once did he get hammered in the lane just little love taps to let him know he was being watched. ::

I hope we don't get 4 days of this "he said, she said" again this week.  It was so hard to wade through it all last week.

By the way...Raymond went to the line 20 times last year as mentioned previously by TitanQ.  I don't think he was averaging 10 FTs per game at the time.  It's not outside the realm of possibility that maybe NC committed 25+ fouls last night. 

The Carthage record for FT attempts in a game is 55 against.....North Central in 2004, so there is some history of touch fouls being called when Carthage and North Central get together.

[REDMENFAN]

REDMENFAN,
                   Anytime you look at the stats of a team or player then you see a jump by 10 in any area in one game it sends a red flag out and NCC isn't a real physical team with 4 players fouling out, that sir is not the norm. Let Steve have his shots is not a bad plan but you better shut down the others.Add back in the 4 players who fouled out a different outcome would have happened, shame on the hissy officals the game could have been called differently. I heard all summer how physical the CCIW was and then you get a player who goes to the line 27 times in a game, if it was as physical as led to believe Steve would have been in a wheelchair or had a walker at the line.Not once did he get hammered in the lane just little love taps to let him know he was being watched. ::

As I stated in an earlier post, about 6-8 of his attempts Steve wasn't even attempting a shot. He'd make a move and the defender would put both hands on him to stop his momentum, which is the easiest foul to call.  Anoter 8-10 were in the final few minutes when NC kept fouling to prolong the game. The final 10 or so were actual shooting fouls.  This really isn't something to sit here and go back and forth about, so I won't post about the amount of free throws last night anymore. My point was just that Steve has always gotten to the line a lot, and NC's coach sure didn't seem to be complaining/arguing about the majority of the calls because MOST (not all) were obvious or intentional fouls.

[Titan Q]

REDMENFAN,
                   Anytime you look at the stats of a team or player then you see a jump by 10 in any area in one game it sends a red flag out and NCC isn't a real physical team with 4 players fouling out, that sir is not the norm. Let Steve have his shots is not a bad plan but you better shut down the others.Add back in the 4 players who fouled out a different outcome would have happened, shame on the hissy officals the game could have been called differently. I heard all summer how physical the CCIW was and then you get a player who goes to the line 27 times in a game, if it was as physical as led to believe Steve would have been in a wheelchair or had a walker at the line.Not once did he get hammered in the lane just little love taps to let him know he was being watched. ::

I guess if not for the anti-NCC sentiment from the CCIW officials, the Cards would be undefeated in the league.