MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Titan Q]

Hats off to the Titans for a hard-fought win on the road tonight.  Doug Sexauer was probably IWU's player of the game for his performance in the 2nd half. 

[tjcummingsfan]

Really Q?

You're saying that was a good call?

[Titan Q]

Really Q?

You're saying that was a good call?

North Park getting jobbed at home?  This is so completely ridiculous I won't post another word about it. 

[tjcummingsfan]

At least the other Titan fans I spoke with had the decency to acknowledge the fact that NP did get screwed in the last seconds.

Your other points are valid, but come on, have some respect for the Vikings who basically had an amazing victory stolen out of their hands by an official.  Some time of frustration, and lamentation is deserved.  Don't be a sore winner (not to say that we're not to some degree being sore losers).

Walking home from the game I said to my fiancee', "I hate that this game came down to a foul call, because I'm so sick of talking about the reffing (I know I have been a huge part of the problem) on D3Hoops".  In such a tight league, it seems like officials might just make that much more of a difference this year compared to others. 

[veterancciwfan]

My views on the NPU/IWU game (sitting right behind the Titan bench):

1) Q is right about the lazy clock. NPU had 3 shots after the missed FT including the alleged game-winner. 3 shots and one lengthy on the floor battle for a loose ball? Impossible for all of this to occur in only 6 seconds. And in reality, the actual clock time that elapsed was only 4 seconds because 2 seconds were restored to the clock after the offensive foul was called. Morris shot the final FT with 2 seconds left on the clock.

2) The ref immediately waived off the alleged game winning basket and pointed towards the IWU basket (since he had made the over-the-back offensive call on NPU). Any fan who thought that NPU had won the game obviously was ingonring the clear signal from the ref that the shot did not count.

3) The only doubt after that no-shot indication was what was called. And it was an offensive foul on NPU, which in reality certainly occured well after 6 seconds from the missed FT. My guess is that the clock did not start for at least 3 seconds after the missed FT when NPU was still down one.

4) Both teams had ample opportunity to win or lose the game by making plays or FTs. The difference for IWU was Sexauer. IWU won in spite of horrific FT shooting and quite a few turnovers (I would guess at least 12, maybe 14).

5) IWU's defense, including a 2-3 zone in the 2nd half, was effective. The biggest difference in IWU now and IWU in early Dec. is defense. IWU has shut down Millikin, Wheaton, and NPU (undoubtedly a combination of IWU's defense and the opponent's poor offensive decisions).

[tjcummingsfan]

* IWU freshmen scored 35 points tonight at North Park.

NP sophomores scored 36...

[veterancciwfan]

 I was off by 2 seconds. As Q correctly posted, there were 8 (not 6) seconds left when Alexander was at the line. But the actual elapsed clock time after the missed 2nd FT and when the offensive foul on NPU was whistled was only 6 seconds. The game film will clearly show that the clock was not timely started after the missed 2nd FT. Both Q and I have estimated that the clock was a minimum of 3 seconds late.

[tjcummingsfan]

The clock starting late is far different from the official deciding the game on a questionable call with 2 seconds left as the winning shot is headed through the basket.  I'm not saying its okay if the clock did start late (I didn't see, I was watching the action), but again on a completely different level!

[oap5387]

I've watched basketball my whole life, and the last time that I saw something like this happen was the '72 Olympics.

I'll be honest.  I'm both completely shocked and disappointed to hear all of the comments about the officiating.  The '72 Olympics?! 

Here are the facts:

* Illinois Wesleyan led for the final 18:19 of the game.

* IWU freshmen scored 35 points tonight at North Park.

* IWU's average 2nd half lead was about 5 points (2 possessions).

* With :15 left, up 2, IWU went to the FT line to end the game.  On a made FT by Sean Johnson, Darius Gant fell into the lane and his hand touched the paint, giving NPU a complete gift possession.

* With :08 left, Jay Alexander stood at the FT line with a chance to tie the game.  He made the first and missed the second, which led to the ensuing scrum.  The officials didn't make Jay miss his FT, did they?

* There is no way in the world that final shot was taken within 8 legimate seconds.  Anyone notice when the clock started running?  About 3 seconds after the FT was missed.  No comments about the hometown shotclock operation?

* No North Park fan saw the no-brainer over-the-back foul (that was called) that allowed NPU to shoot the final shot?  Come on.


Here is a thought for the NPU fans:

Play better the first 39 minutes and 52 seconds - at home - so you don't have to whine about a wild 8 second flurry at the end of the game. 

The better team, and the team that played better tonight, won the game. 

i normally just stand by and "watch the drama unfold" so to speak

But I find your statement, Titan Q, to be very offensive and insensitive to Viking fans after a close loss.

"Here is a thought for the NPU fans:

Play better the first 39 minutes and 52 seconds - at home - so you don't have to whine about a wild 8 second flurry at the end of the game. "

I'm sorry, how dare fans get emotionally involved in their team and display feelings of disappointment....  If the results were different, I'm sure you would be up in arms in disbelief.  Should i reply by "perhaps if you played better, you wouldn't have to whine about it"  Of course NP could have played better earlier on.  But on the flip side,  why did IWU let NP get back in if they were "the better team"? The stats in my opinion look pretty balanced, and np made a good attempt at the end to overcome their mistakes and go for a win. 

All I'm saying is that perhaps you could be more sensitive to fans' feelings post game and a little more respectful to the NP players who played their best to try to pull one out in the end.

[Naperick]

Home teams were 1-3 tonight.

Augie was the only home team to win, 70-60, over NCC.

[andrewmp]

A few more comments to add about the Wheaton/Elmhurst game.
Elmhurst jumped out to their early 11 point lead in part by good shooting and shot selection on their part, and Wheaton having a hard time putting the ball in the basket.  Wheaton got back into it, but Elmhurst stayed in control to the half.  I am not sure how mnay times the first half, but I beleive that Elmhurst got 10-12 easy points by well placed lob passes over the wheaton defenders down low.  Seems to be a problem for wheaton.
The second half started in a similar way, but Wheaton ended up going on a huge run.  It seemed that Kent sensed this and was regulary pushing the ball up.  Elmhurst at times looked lost on D during this run that put Wheaton up by ten, with one possession having three defenders guard/look at Raymond while leaving Panner wide open for a 3, which he drained.  With a little over seven minutes left, Elmhurst started to come back in, being helped on a no call of goal-tending.  Elmhurst went to the line several times, hitting almost all them, and that was a key to getting back into the game.
The game was won in overtime when Raymond hit a dagger of a three with around a minute or so left to put Wheaton up by 6 or 7.  
Wheaton won in part because they were able to largely take away the outside game of Elmhurst.    Beyond the very first shot of the game, Burks  was limited to scoring almost exclusively from the line.  No other guard really seemed to want to step up and take the shot from the outside.  THey were not great on the interior, and Elmhurst clearly was better at getting to the line.
With all the other comments about refs tonight, I will say that it wasn't a badly called game, except for two major calls, one being the aforementioned goal-tend, and also a call on Weile that I beleive if a call was to be made should have been on Phil.  That ended up being Wiele's 5th foul, and he sat out for a good chunk of overtime.  There was a call made earlier in the game were the officials called a foul originally on a wheaton player who was currently on the bench.  Quite funny actually, especially the reaction of the wheaton coaches.
An exciting game to be at.

[Naperick]

A few more comments to add about the Wheaton/Elmhurst game.
Elmhurst jumped out to their early 11 point lead in part by good shooting and shot selection on their part, and Wheaton having a hard time putting the ball in the basket.  Wheaton got back into it, but Elmhurst stayed in control to the half.  I am not sure how mnay times the first half, but I beleive that Elmhurst got 10-12 easy points by well placed lob passes over the wheaton defenders down low.  Seems to be a problem for wheaton.
The second half started in a similar way, but Wheaton ended up going on a huge run.  It seemed that Kent sensed this and was regulary pushing the ball up.  Elmhurst at times looked lost on D during this run that put Wheaton up by ten, with one possession having three defenders guard/look at Raymond while leaving Panner wide open for a 3, which he drained.  With a little over seven minutes left, Elmhurst started to come back in, being helped on a no call of goal-tending.  Elmhurst went to the line several times, hitting almost all them, and that was a key to getting back into the game.
The game was won in overtime when Raymond hit a dagger of a three with around a minute or so left to put Wheaton up by 6 or 7.  
Wheaton won in part because they were able to largely take away the outside game of Elmhurst.    Beyond the very first shot of the game, Burks  was limited to scoring almost exclusively from the line.  No other guard really seemed to want to step up and take the shot from the outside.  THey were not great on the interior, and Elmhurst clearly was better at getting to the line.
With all the other comments about refs tonight, I will say that it wasn't a badly called game, except for two major calls, one being the aforementioned goal-tend, and also a call on Weile that I beleive if a call was to be made should have been on Phil.  That ended up being Wiele's 5th foul, and he sat out for a good chunk of overtime.  There was a call made earlier in the game were the officials called a foul originally on a wheaton player who was currently on the bench.  Quite funny actually, especially the reaction of the wheaton coaches.
An exciting game to be at.

Nice game summary!  You got into more detail than I did.  It was a good game!

[robberki]

Let me restate my position on the NPU-IWU fiasco. I really don't care if there was a foul, with under 10 seconds left unless there is an absolute mugging a good official doesn't blow the whistle. Since I've seen the tape now, there were at LEAST 2 fouls on NPU shooters during the rebounding scrum that could have been called. Jay Alexander in particular should have been back at the line.
The point being, the officials let the game play (for the most part) all game. I looked up at the scoreboard and with 8 minutes left in the game there had been exactly 2 fouls called. Odd timing for the refs to suddenly start enforcing things to the letter...especially on a game winning basket.

[robberki]

The lane violation on Gant was a lane violation.  I'm not sure about the offensive foul but it only helped North Park.  The ref was right when he indicated that the made shot was after the buzzer.  If they don't call the foul, North Park has no chance to win as time expired before they got their last shot off.

The shot absolutely went through before the buzzer.

We can agree to disagree on that one.  It was a hard played game on both sides.

no, you can't disagree on this one. I've seen the tape, the shot went through before the horn sounded. At some point we all have to watch a video and just agree on what the heck reality is.
Reality is NPU lost...but I'm still angry as heck about it.

[augiefan]

As we near the half way point in the conference season, virtually every game continues to be competitive, Elmhurst at NPU being the notable exception. This being said IWU and Carthage are co-winners of the Most Pleasant Surprise Award, while Elmhurst with two home losses has to be the winner of the Most Disappointing Award. Augie would be a competitor for this latter award, if Delp were still playing, but with Jordan out for the season, Augie is playing about as should be expected, winning close ones at home and losing close ones on the road.

The interesting thing is that no team, except possibly Millikin, is really eliminated from a shot at winning the title, although Carthage is in awfully good shape right now with only one loss. The stretch run should be fun.