MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Titan Q]

False! I've watched it repeatedly today, it was a tip drill type play, the IWU player does not have position to actually garner an over-the-back call, they both tried to grab the ball and Williams is simply taller.

Better give it one more look, Rob.  Sean Johnson is on the floor, standing in perfect "box-out" type position, with Williams squarely behind him.  Williams had to bump him forward in order to get at the ball which was falling right in front of Johnson.

I think you're watching one of your old NPU game tapes from the late '90s.

[aceon2]

False! I've watched it repeatedly today, it was a tip drill type play, the IWU player does not have position to actually garner an over-the-back call, they both tried to grab the ball and Williams is simply taller. Check your tape more closely as number 14 holds on to Jay Alexanders shoulder during a put back attempt and shoves Tone with a forearm during his putback attempt...both of which occured before the phantom call. Which, BTW, I have no problem with the ref's not calling because during a last second scrum like that there are always 10 different fouls that could be called but shouldn't be because it's better for ref's to swallow their whistles in that situation.
Also, to make it more conspiracy minded, check out the series before where Alexander actually ends up on the line. The official underneath the basket is Mao (or whatever his name is, the guy that made the call that determined the game) and doesn't call the foul where jay is absolutely hammered, instead the call is made by the rear official near the  NPU sideline. Two plays were called wrong by this official....add this to their behavior AFTER the game in the hallway (which I won't repeat here) and something seriously stinks about this.

Rob, I understand you are very upset about the calls.  But two things: 1) The official is a human, not a robot, therefore he will make mistakes.  and 2) For you to suggest some sort of conspiracy, please...

I believe the CCIW has some of the best officials in D3 college basketball.  Dont get me wrong, there are a handful of officials who could use a review, but overall they do a fine job.  In non-conference play the games are much less physical, therefore they are easier games to actually call.  When conference play starts, games are so much more physical, and I think the referees do a fine job for the most part.

[Titan Q]

Its really as simple as that.  Q, Rob, Sager, etc we could all debate it the rest of the season, but the truth is that you all are looking through somewhat clouded vision being that you all love your teams!

I believe you are absolutely correct, and I do appreciate your repeated peacemaking efforts.  I will do my part and get out of this conversation and move on.  IWU has two enormous home games this week (Augie and Carthage) - looking forward to them.

[iwumichigander]

Anybody think that Carthage will win 10 games in the league?  I just don't see it, even though they are almost halfway there with 9 games left to play.  Their hot shooting, which most likely will not be sustained at the same pace the rest of the year, and their soft defense suggest that.  However, they are much better than I thought they would be,...

Why not? As you note, Carthage is almost halfway there.  All losses have been on the road. Record at home 6-0.  With 4 home games remaining and 5 road games the odds seems to be in their favor to win at least 10 unless some team figures out how to shutdown Steve D

TBF, since my post (many other posts and pages ago  ) I took a quick peek at the remaining schedules of each CCIW team.  Given Carthage's remaining CCIW opponents in addition of the home/road scenario, I think Carthage will not only have more than ten wins but could also finish first in the CCIW.  I definitely see them as in the CCIW tournament. Yes, living by the three and allegedly soft defense are weaknesses, but until some CCIW team figures out how to limit Steve D I don't see Carthage going into a tail spin.

[robberki]

False! I've watched it repeatedly today, it was a tip drill type play, the IWU player does not have position to actually garner an over-the-back call, they both tried to grab the ball and Williams is simply taller.

Better give it one more look, Rob.  Sean Johnson is on the floor, standing in perfect "box-out" type position, with Williams squarely behind him.  Williams had to bump him forward in order to get at the ball which was falling right in front of Johnson.

I think you're watching one of your old NPU game tapes from the late '90s.

I seriously don't see what you're seeing, they are both standing straight up and jumping at the ball like everyone else.....it can't possibly be confused for me since I never left the floor.

[Titan Q]

What has happened to Elmhurst freshman point-guard Jimmy Saris?  Saris started 10 consecutive games between 12/15 and 1/16.  After that 3rd league game @ Carthage (which he started), he's barely played.  He did not play at all vs IWU, played 2 minutes off the bench at NPU, and did not play at all vs Wheaton Saturday.  It seemed like Saris was doing OK in there.

[Titan Q]

And what has happened to my fellow Brother Rice Crusader Christian Alsing at North Park?  He did not play in the JV game vs IWU and he is no longer listed on the roster...

http://www.northpark.edu/npuvikings/sport.cfm?pageCall=3

[AndOne]

False! I've watched it repeatedly today, it was a tip drill type play, the IWU player does not have position to actually garner an over-the-back call, they both tried to grab the ball and Williams is simply taller. Check your tape more closely as number 14 holds on to Jay Alexanders shoulder during a put back attempt and shoves Tone with a forearm during his putback attempt...both of which occured before the phantom call. Which, BTW, I have no problem with the ref's not calling because during a last second scrum like that there are always 10 different fouls that could be called but shouldn't be because it's better for ref's to swallow their whistles in that situation.
Also, to make it more conspiracy minded, check out the series before where Alexander actually ends up on the line. The official underneath the basket is Mao (or whatever his name is, the guy that made the call that determined the game) and doesn't call the foul where jay is absolutely hammered, instead the call is made by the rear official near the  NPU sideline. Two plays were called wrong by this official....add this to their behavior AFTER the game in the hallway (which I won't repeat here) and something seriously stinks about this.

Rob, I understand you are very upset about the calls.  But two things: 1) The official is a human, not a robot, therefore he will make mistakes.  and 2) For you to suggest some sort of conspiracy, please...

I believe the CCIW has some of the best officials in D3 college basketball.  Dont get me wrong, there are a handful of officials who could use a review, but overall they do a fine job.  In non-conference play the games are much less physical, therefore they are easier games to actually call.  When conference play starts, games are so much more physical, and I think the referees do a fine job for the most part.

Aceon2----

I have to disagree with you, at least for the most part. The CCIW certainly does have some mighty fine officials, but the majority of them aren't that good. This is based on my observations over several years, but primarily the last two. Often, you see one or two of the refs in the same game calling a play one way and the other one or two calling the same type play differently. The same group of refs can't even seem to agree in many instances. Sorry, but I have to believe the CCIW could bring in some new refs--either the best HS refs or the top refs from other area conferences--who would do a better job overall. JMHO.

It seems if the refs were that good, we wouldn't have so much disagreement among such a large number of posters, from a variety of schools.

Also, you must be a basketball junkie!   
Otherwise you wouldn't have seen the amount of CCIW basketball that you have PLUS so much ball from conferences outside the CCIW. Logically, this would have to be true. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to make such a strong comparative statement as, "the CCIW has some of the best officials in D3 college basketball."  True?

[aceon2]

AndOne

You are absolutely correct in stating that I am a basketball junkie, and I have seen quite a few games outside of the CCIW.  I may have overstated in saying that the CCIW has some of the best refs in division 3.  What I will say are these couple of points: 1) I think we would all agree that the CCIW is consistently one of the top 2-3 conferences in division 3 ball.  That being said, from my perspective, it is in the top 2 when it comes to the physicality of the league (WIAC would get my other vote).   Therefore, I feel it is one of the most difficult leagues to ref in.  2) That being said I would also say that in some 99% of the games in the CCIW, the referees have not affected the direct outcome of that game one way or another.  3) Being that every game in the league is going to be a physical game and a game that comes down to the last 5 minutes, I think that is pretty remarkable.  4) From my point of view, every referee will miss calls, but very good referees do not let their whistle be the determining factor in whether or not one team won the game or not.  All coaches will complain, all fans will complain, all players will complain, because lets be honest we are all homers...  I am not disagreeing in the fact that bringing in some new referees would be a bad idea.  Just stating that I think the refs do a pretty darn good job.

[Pat Coleman]

Well, my curiosity finally got the best of me Rob, so I went to the Shirk Center today to watch the film. 

The Zapruder film has emerged! Q, was there a "shooter" in the grassy knoll? Did Sean Johnson's head move "back and to the left"? I believe we should convene the Carlson Crazies Commission and start a complete investigation.

Sean Johnson clearly did move back and to the left -- back and to the left - after the foul by Williams.  And the "magic basketball theory" is also in play here - a ball went through the hoop legally, according to North Park fans, even though shot a full 2 seconds after a foul was clearly whistled.

Damn, he beat me to it. 

[usee]

I will be watching closely how the IWU guards handle stevie bosko. sean dwyer did a good job on kent raymond, Q will rose put dwyer on Stevie? I think we find out this week if IWU is a contender or a pretender. two huge home games for them. So far they are the real deal. they almost stole one up in kenosha earlier and have a road win against NPU and a home V against wheaton.

Wheaton put a pulse back in their arm with the victory over in elmhurst. they can create a little momentum with their next two home games v millkin and NCC. I think carthage will struggle on the road down the stretch and the team that can gain some confidence and win a road game or two during this middle stretch of the schedule will have a clear advantage the last 3rd of the season

[Titan Q]

I will be watching closely how the IWU guards handle stevie bosko. sean dwyer did a good job on kent raymond, Q will rose put dwyer on Stevie? I think we find out this week if IWU is a contender or a pretender. two huge home games for them. So far they are the real deal. they almost stole one up in kenosha earlier and have a road win against NPU and a home V against wheaton.

Wheaton put a pulse back in their arm with the victory over in elmhurst. they can create a little momentum with their next two home games v millkin and NCC. I think carthage will struggle on the road down the stretch and the team that can gain some confidence and win a road game or two during this middle stretch of the schedule will have a clear advantage the last 3rd of the season

In IWU's overtime loss @ Carthage, freshman Matt Schick and sophomore Sean Dwyer logged the most minutes on Djurickovic.  They did a pretty good job too.  He had 19 points at the end of regulation (6 points in OT), which seems to be a victory against him.

http://www.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/mbb2008/CRT-MEN.HTM

[usee]

I will be watching closely how the IWU guards handle stevie bosko. sean dwyer did a good job on kent raymond, Q will rose put dwyer on Stevie? I think we find out this week if IWU is a contender or a pretender. two huge home games for them. So far they are the real deal. they almost stole one up in kenosha earlier and have a road win against NPU and a home V against wheaton.

Wheaton put a pulse back in their arm with the victory over in elmhurst. they can create a little momentum with their next two home games v millkin and NCC. I think carthage will struggle on the road down the stretch and the team that can gain some confidence and win a road game or two during this middle stretch of the schedule will have a clear advantage the last 3rd of the season

In IWU's overtime loss @ Carthage, freshman Matt Schick and sophomore Sean Dwyer logged the most minutes on Djurickovic.  They did a pretty good job too.  He had 19 points at the end of regulation (6 points in OT), which seems to be a victory against him.

http://www.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/mbb2008/CRT-MEN.HTM

I'd call that a victory of sorts. Will be interesting to see how this matchup develops in round 2.

[Viking Blue]

Rumor I heard on Alsing on Saturday night was that he left the team to spend more time with his girlfriend.  No joke.

[AndOne]

AndOne

You are absolutely correct in stating that I am a basketball junkie, and I have seen quite a few games outside of the CCIW.  I may have overstated in saying that the CCIW has some of the best refs in division 3.  What I will say are these couple of points: 1) I think we would all agree that the CCIW is consistently one of the top 2-3 conferences in division 3 ball.  That being said, from my perspective, it is in the top 2 when it comes to the physicality of the league (WIAC would get my other vote).   Therefore, I feel it is one of the most difficult leagues to ref in.  2) That being said I would also say that in some 99% of the games in the CCIW, the referees have not affected the direct outcome of that game one way or another.  3) Being that every game in the league is going to be a physical game and a game that comes down to the last 5 minutes, I think that is pretty remarkable.  4) From my point of view, every referee will miss calls, but very good referees do not let their whistle be the determining factor in whether or not one team won the game or not.  All coaches will complain, all fans will complain, all players will complain, because lets be honest we are all homers...  I am not disagreeing in the fact that bringing in some new referees would be a bad idea.  Just stating that I think the refs do a pretty darn good job.

Ace---

Well put.

I would agree completely with your point #1.

With regard to #2, I'd put it at about 50/50 from what I've seen. And. I mean the entire game. not just the last 5 minutes.

Even if someone feels the refs called a bad game, they are not going to complain if their team wins. So yes, we are truly all homers in that regard. I do think we need to realize that sometimes when a fan of the losing team complains, they have a valid point.

Glad to see u don't think bringing in some new refs would be a bad idea.