MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[iwumichigander]

I think this year's Wheaton team is as good to slightly better than last year's version. Panner and Wiele are clearly better than they were last year and Jahns gives them what they had with Mohan. Raymond is certainly a year better and gets everyone involved. Their biggest achilles heel is a lack of depth which is why its probably closer to a push than anything else. They just don't have the extra 1 or 2 guys off the bench (especially on their frontline) they can go to and get some good minutes of defending and rebounding. They are losing games down the stretch because of a lack of depth in my opinion.

Harris is going 8 deep; so, I'm going to assume your lack of depth comment is about experience and productivity. Carwell or Denham needs to step their game up at least another notch particularly under the boards - rebounding and points in paint. When your #2 rebounder has 4.4 RPG and its a guard a team is going to have trouble - even when that guard is Kent Raymond.  Panner needs to improve his rebounding production ( his other numbers are excellent) as does the bench. The other 3 guys on the floor are making Wiele and Raymond expend too much energy on the boards.

More production from the other three guys on the floor will help Wiele get better; and, right now the team is making Raymond work too hard.  You really want his energy focused on offense (of course, the rest of the CCIW will be unhappy with that result  )

[augiefan]

The truth is that if Jordan Delp were healthy and playing, Augie would not be down this year. His season ending injury was devastating for the preseason favorite. With a healthy Delp Augie would be deserving of their ranking, would be at least one win better in the CCIW and would still be the favorite for the title and the NCAA berth. Without him they will struggle to exceed .500 status in the conference.

[usee]

I think this year's Wheaton team is as good to slightly better than last year's version. Panner and Wiele are clearly better than they were last year and Jahns gives them what they had with Mohan. Raymond is certainly a year better and gets everyone involved. Their biggest achilles heel is a lack of depth which is why its probably closer to a push than anything else. They just don't have the extra 1 or 2 guys off the bench (especially on their frontline) they can go to and get some good minutes of defending and rebounding. They are losing games down the stretch because of a lack of depth in my opinion.

I would definitely agree that Panner and Wiele are playing much better this year, especially Panner.  And that Jahns has done a good job replacing what Mohan did.  But, wouldnt you agree though that Fiddler and Standard were huge losses for the Thunder?  I thought those guys did the things(rebounds, hustle plays, key p-ut backs) that often times were the difference between winning by 3 and losing by 3.  Each averaged over 4 rebounds a game and over a steal a game.  To me they are the difference between this years team and last years.  

interesting theory so I did some checking. below are the stats for Wheaton's top 6 from this year and last year:

2006-2007               pts                rebounds Raymond                22.4                    4.0 Panner                   9.1                     3.0 Wiele                     8.0                     6.1 Standard               10.9                    5.7 Fiddler                   8.5                     4.8 Mohan                  11.7                    1.4 totals                   70.6                    25

2007-2008             pts                 rebounds Raymond               22.9                    4.4              Panner                  14.7                    2.4 Wiele                    14.8                    11 Carwell                  3.9                     3.4 Denham                 3.6                     3.7 Jahns                    5.3                     2.4 totals                   65.2                   27.3

You can see that while the 3 constants (Raymond, Panner, Wiele) have improved their numbers, the next 3 are not producing nearly at the level  that Standard, Fiddler, Mohan were. Raymond, Panner, Wiele this year contribute 52.4 ppg and 17.8 rebounds (vs 39.5 and 13.1 a year ago) showing significant improvement in production (mainly attributable to Wiele). But their next 3 (Carwell, Denham, Jahns) contribute 12.8ppg and 9.5 rbs (vs Standard, Fiddler and Mohan of 31.1ppg and 11.9 rbs).

In short, yes missing standard and Fiddler as options to create balance is a big difference in last years vs this years thunder team.

[usee]

The truth is that if Jordan Delp were healthy and playing, Augie would not be down this year. His season ending injury was devastating for the preseason favorite. With a healthy Delp Augie would be deserving of their ranking, would be at least one win better in the CCIW and would still be the favorite for the title and the NCAA berth. Without him they will struggle to exceed .500 status in the conference.

and if my uncle wore a dress he'd be my aunt. 

[Titan Q]

Average bench scoring through 6 CCIW games:

Millikin - 24.8/game
Elmhurst - 21.7/game
North Park - 18.3/game
Augustana - 16.3/game
Illinois Wesleyan - 13.5/game
North Central - 8.2/game
Carthage - 7.7/game
Wheaton - 6.5/game

[iwumichigander]

The truth is that if Jordan Delp were healthy and playing, Augie would not be down this year. His season ending injury was devastating for the preseason favorite. With a healthy Delp Augie would be deserving of their ranking, would be at least one win better in the CCIW and would still be the favorite for the title and the NCAA berth. Without him they will struggle to exceed .500 status in the conference.

Excerpted from the Pantagraph today (full article http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2008/01/30/usports/doc479ff8156f332670463195.txt )

On Delp - "Augustana College basketball coach Grey Giovanine calls the early December, season-ending injury to senior Jordan Delp "significant" and the adjustment "still very much ongoing."

On the CCIW - "Giovanine said Delp's injury has made the CCIW, which will not have an undefeated league champion for the 35th consecutive season, more competitive.

"With Delp healthy, we were the consensus favorite," he said. "But we don't have that team anymore. From top to bottom, there is little difference with the quality of play and personnel. It's really splitting hairs. That's why the league is so interesting."

I don't think Coach G meant to imply Delp was the only contributing reason the conference is more competitive (although certainly his ego would allow for it  ) but certainly a key one.  And, AF - IMHO Augie will finish the conference above .500 it's a just matter of how much higher

[aceon2]

Usee

Thanks for the stats... Very good insight as to Wheaton last year vs this year.

IWUMich---------

I understand what you are saying about the league and how much parity there is.  I would definitely agree with you on that point and that is why anyone could win the league.  What I would say though, is that you have to go through and look at each team individually versus that same team last year, as what just noted by usee with Wheaton.  First thing is first, there is no question that Augie, Elmhurst, NCC, and Millikin were much better teams LAST year.  On the second level one could say that IWU and CC are MUCH better this year.  To which I would really ask, are they that much better, or is the league just so watered down with DECENT to GOOD basketball teams that they are winning more? Finally you take a look at Wheaton and NPU, and as I stated previously and as the numbers back up, Wheaton isn't quite the same without Mohan, Fiddler, and Standard.  NPU just hasnt shown much improvement thus far either.  So is the league down?? I would say yes, slighty... That is the comparison, not to the rest of the Midwest, because the CCIW always does well in that regard.  Just some thoughts from my point of view.

[iwumichigander]

Usee - nicely done! 

[iwumichigander]

aceon2 - I understand, and respect,  your viewpoint as you qualified the basis of your comparison.  I may not agree with the analysis or your conclusion.  But, as a reader, I have an understanding of what you used to make the comparison.

Where I have a concern is posters making a broad, general statement "the league is down" without stating their baseline used to make the statement, without the basis for their comparison; or without facts; or, at minimum, a quote or reference to the post to which they are responding.

[iwumichigander]

Greg - nice to have you back. And, thanks for the well written post.

[iwumichigander]

It will be interesting to see today the Week 9 Top 25

The Top 25 came out Monday night. Carthage remains on my watch list but not in my 25 yet.

Oops - my bad!  I think we are all watching Carthage in the CCIW but they are not in my Top 25 either - yet.

[aceon2]

Congrats to all the Viking fans on a great win tonight.  Great game all the way through.  Carthage loses by 1 in overtime.

[Viking Blue]

North Park pulls it out in Kenosha!  Huge win, and a must-win!

[mr_b]

North Park rebounds for a 67-66 OT victory at Kenosha.  That must have been quite a contest to witness... following it by the live stats was exciting enough!

[Gregory Sager]

Dan Oziminski hit a jumper with three seconds left to force overtime, and then hit a pair of FTs with six seconds left in OT to win the game for NPU tonight, 67-66. Magnificent clutch performance on a night when the Vikings almost gave it away -- they missed three of four FTs in the last minute of regulation, including two Nick Williams misses with under half a minute left and the Park up by a point.

Williams otherwise had a terrific night (17 pts, 12 rebs). Jason Gordon led the Vikes with 21. Steve Djurickovic had 21 to lead Carthage, but he was 7-20 from the field -- sounds like Antonio Stevens and Jason Gordon did a good job on him. Sean Fendley (19 pts, 3-6 treys) was money tonight for the Red Men, while Trey Bowens came up big late for the hosts and had 11.