MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Naperick]

The last few pages of this thread is very good.  Lots of good points on both sides of the issue.  I'm starting to lean towards not liking the CCIW tourney.  But Elmhurst and IWU still have a shot for a D3 tourney bid and they would not have that chance without the CCIW tourney.  I guess I am torn right now.  Depends on the day you ask me.

[Naperick]

I'm not saying the CCIW should go to an 8 team tourney.  I just think the regular season should mean something so 4 is a nice number.  Just imagine if every team got in.  North Park would be the #6 seed but nobody would want to play them right now.  They are as hot as anybody in the CCIW.

[AndOne]

The last few pages of this thread is very good.  Lots of good points on both sides of the issue.  I'm starting to lean towards not liking the CCIW tourney.  But Elmhurst and IWU still have a shot for a D3 tourney bid and they would not have that chance without the CCIW tourney. I guess I am torn right now.  Depends on the day you ask me.

And that was the primary impetus for my idea about the possibility of having a non-qualifier for the conference tourney (one of the 5th-8th place teams) be the host.
The odds favor the regular season champ also winning the conference tourney, but even if they don't, they're still going to the national tourney anyway. If the CCIW wants to get more teams into the national tourney, why increase the odds the regular season champ will also win the CCIW tourney and the AQ by having that team enjoy home court advantage. Augie is going no matter if they win the CCIW tourney or not. They don't need the added advantage of home court support. Wheaton may go if they go 1-1, and IWU and EC have no chance or virtually no chance if they don't win. Again, if the conference tourney was held at a "neutral" (as far as the conference tourney teams are concerned) site, the chances of the teams finishing 2nd-4th would be (slightly) increased, thus increasing the chances for more than one conference representative in the Big Dance.   
Again, not saying its the greatest idea, just an idea to think about.

[Titan Q]

And that was the primary impetus for my idea about the possibility of having a non-qualifier for the conference tourney (one of the 5th-8th place teams) be the host.
The odds favor the regular season champ also winning the conference tourney, but even if they don't, they're still going to the national tourney anyway.

You can't make that statement so definitively.  Above I gave the example of the UAA situation, for example.  There is a very good chance Chicago will win the UAA title.  If the Maroons had to play in a conference tournament and lost, they could very easily be on the outside looking in of Pool C.

And as we look at the CCIW, is it crazy to think the league champ could finish 10-4 or even 9-5 in conference play?  How many games did Augie win they could have lost?  I see the CCIW's parity - which was as strong this year as I've seen in my 20 years around the league - only increasing as we move forward.  Just think about next year...

- Augie returns everyone but Swetalla
- IWU has a ton of young talent
- Wheaton will always be in the mix...even if Raymond leaves
- Elmhurst may have two 1st Teamers (Ruch, Burks)
- Carthage has one of the best players in Division III
- North Park has a ton of young talent
- NCC has Rogers and Drennan back
- Millikin will get better as Smith settles in and gets more talent

Every team in the league is working hard to compete in men's basketball right now.  I see the CCIW continuing to be a slugfest, year in and year out.  If that is the case, and the champ has 4 losses (or at least 3), that means there is a good chance that team is not any sort of lock for a Pool C bid when you add in 3-4 non-conference losses vs a good schedule.

It is not inconceivable at all to think there could be a CCIW regular season champ not make the NCAA tournament (with the conference tournament in place).  I continue to feel that the league's priority - and AQ winner - should be the team that earned the title of champion by surviving the 14-game CCIW slate. 

[Fox 40]

  Interesting thoughts on the tourney.  Here is one more I'm sure the NCAA will love.  Give the winner of the regular season the choice of not participating in the conference tournament if they believe they are already in good position to gain a spot in the NCAA tournament.  If the winnner of the conference chooses not to participate, move the 5th place team into the spot and let the second place team host.  If the first place team ends up not getting a bid then they have no one to blame but themselves.
For example, this scenario may allow Augustana to pass on  this years conference tourney by virtue of winning the CCIW conference, playing a solid non conference schedule and being ranked #1 in the midwest region.  This would allow Carthage an opportunity into the tournament and IWU could host.   Okay, now let the arrows fly!

[petemcb]

  Interesting thoughts on the tourney.  Here is one more I'm sure the NCAA will love.  Give the winner of the regular season the choice of not participating in the conference tournament if they believe they are already in good position to gain a spot in the NCAA tournament.  If the winnner of the conference chooses not to participate, move the 5th place team into the spot and let the second place team host.  If the first place team ends up not getting a bid then they have no one to blame but themselves.
For example, this scenario may allow Augustana to pass on  this years conference tourney by virtue of winning the CCIW conference, playing a solid non conference schedule and being ranked #1 in the midwest region.  This would allow Carthage an opportunity into the tournament and IWU could host.   Okay, now let the arrows fly!

I'm in.  I can make it to the Shirk 45 minutes faster than I can to Carver.

[und63]

Does anyone have information on the ticket situation at Augustana for
Friday night's games?  Is there an allocation to each school?

We're driving from Bloomington to support the GREEN and the way the
Titan faithful travel I don't want to get there with a fiasco of "reserved
for the home fans" like Wartburg a few years ago.

Thanks!

[Fox 40]

Does anyone have information on the ticket situation at Augustana for
Friday night's games?  Is there an allocation to each school?

We're driving from Bloomington to support the GREEN and the way the
Titan faithful travel I don't want to get there with a fiasco of "reserved
for the home fans" like Wartburg a few years ago.

Thanks!

There is no allottment per school that I'm aware of, it should be first come first serve.  In the past, Augie has divided the Carver center into four even seating sections on Friday and two on Saturday.  Bring the Kids!

[Titan Q]

Does anyone have information on the ticket situation at Augustana for
Friday night's games?  Is there an allocation to each school?

We're driving from Bloomington to support the GREEN and the way the
Titan faithful travel I don't want to get there with a fiasco of "reserved
for the home fans" like Wartburg a few years ago.

Thanks!

I wouldn't worry about it.  Here are the attendance figures from the 6 games played so far in the CCIW conference tournament (all at Augie)...

2/24/06 - North Central vs Elmhurst (934)
2/24/06 - IWU vs Augustana (1547)
2/25/06 - IWU vs North Central (895)

2/23/07 - Wheaton vs Elmhurst (327)
2/23/07 - Augustana vs North Central (703)
2/24/07 - Augustana vs Elmhurst (364)

The average neutral game crowd has been 719.  

FYI, Augie's 2008 CCIW crowds...

vs Elmhurst - 1527
vs Wheaton - 443
vs Millikin - 307
vs North Central - 1235
vs North Park - 332
vs Carthage - 1654
vs IWU - 1707  


With the students on break during the conference tournament, Augie has not drawn very well the first two years.  Tickets shouldn't be a problem.

[AndOne]

Does anyone have information on the ticket situation at Augustana for
Friday night's games?  Is there an allocation to each school?

We're driving from Bloomington to support the GREEN and the way the
Titan faithful travel I don't want to get there with a fiasco of "reserved
for the home fans" like Wartburg a few years ago.

Thanks!

I would first try calling the Wesleyan athletics office. They, quite possibly, have rec'd a batch of tickets, and you can possibly just drive over to school and pay for ($5.00 each) them and pick them up.

If the above doesn't work, tickets go on sale at Augie at 10:00 Thursday. For ticket info call 309-794-7521.

Good luck.   

[Mr. Ypsi]

  Interesting thoughts on the tourney.  Here is one more I'm sure the NCAA will love.  Give the winner of the regular season the choice of not participating in the conference tournament if they believe they are already in good position to gain a spot in the NCAA tournament.  If the winnner of the conference chooses not to participate, move the 5th place team into the spot and let the second place team host.  If the first place team ends up not getting a bid then they have no one to blame but themselves.
For example, this scenario may allow Augustana to pass on  this years conference tourney by virtue of winning the CCIW conference, playing a solid non conference schedule and being ranked #1 in the midwest region.  This would allow Carthage an opportunity into the tournament and IWU could host.   Okay, now let the arrows fly!

That's an intriguing thought.  I'm pretty sure there would be no NCAA prohibition on it (conferences are free to designate their AQ anyway they see fit), but unless the regular season champ was absolutely, undeniably a lock, I wonder if the selection committee might decide to 'smack down' the conference for blatantly 'gaming' the system?  Unless the regular season champ was something like 23-1 in-region, I doubt they take the risk.  And even then they might not want to risk the 'rust' of a 2 week layoff.

[John Gleich]

Given the above---Here is a radical idea which just may actually promote additional CCIW inclusion in the national tournament. Rather than having the regular season champ host the conference tourney, have one of the four teams (I'm against having more than a 4 team conf. tourney) that doesn't make the conf tourney host it!!! In that way, the built in advantage that the conference winning team has by getting to play the conf tourney games on their home floor is eliminated, thus making it more likely that one of the other 3 top regular season teams wins and the conference then has a better chance of having at least 2 teams invited to the Big Dance.

I don't like it.

I agree Q.  At the very least, the top seed should get the advantage of being at home.  I'm of course a WIAC guy... and the top seeds have EARNED the right to host IMO, and the teams who are teams fighting for NCAA bids are going to be the top 4 teams in the conference. 

Now, with a 4 team tournament, it takes the home court advantage away for all but one team.  That, if you're trying to get extra bids, is important.  Now, it isn't as important as winning (I'd rather win away than lose at home, of course), but...

Now, interestingly, in the WIAC, Oshkosh and Platteville were on the cusp (if they were lucky)... and the lost at home, so, in other words, they didn't do what they needed to do to get themselves in a great position to get a bid (unlike Point and Whitewater, who, though they have had an OT game during the conf tournament this week, they've found a way to win and solidified their bids).  Now, the argument can certainly be made that Oshy and Platte lost their bids with their losses to Superior in the last week and NOT in the conference tournament... but that's up to debate.  It may have certainly been each of these team's conference losses to Eau Claire, too.

I think the conference tournament, being what EVERY other conference except the UAA (where a tournament would not really be feasible due to travel) really should be played.  I think NOT having the tournament would give an undue advantage to the conference without one.  Now, if a conference decides to do a 4 team vs. 8 team, that's their prerogative.  IMO, though an 8 team gives a team an opportunity at more losses, it also gives a team an opportunity at more wins, and wins are really what matters.

[Titan Q]

Here are some links for the 2008 CCIW Conference Tournament, and a look at the starters for all 4 teams...

http://www.iwuhoops.com/notes08.htm

[Titan Q]

By the way, the vote this week was as follows...

End the conference tournament
Elmhurst
Carthage
Wheaton
Illinois Wesleyan

Keep it
Augustana
North Park
Millikin
North Central


If the CCIW only gets one team in this year, at least one of the tournament supporters is going to swing over to the other side.

[Titan Q]

Forgot to post...

I was at a high school game last night.  I was standing in the lobby after the game waiting for Coach Steinbrueck to finish talking to a recruit when Illini coach Bruce Weber walks out of the gym into the lobby (he was watching a kid play as well).  I had an IWU pullover on and he walked up, extended his hand, and says, "Good to see you coach.  Ready for Wheaton?"  First, I was shocked a Big Ten coach knew the pairings for the CCIW tournament.  Second, I realize I can't say, "I'm not a coach...I'm the radio guy"...or "I'm Titan Q on CCIW Chat"...or "I'm Coach Steinbrueck's personal assistant."  So I go with it...

Q: "Yeah, it's always tough to beat a good team 3 times, but we're gonna try, coach.  They have a great player we have to deal with.  Who do you guys have next?"

Weber: "Iowa - we need to find a way."

Q: "I hear ya - good luck."

Weber: "Did #32 graduate?  Akeliavonich?"

Q: "Keelan Amelianovich...yes, he graduated 2 years ago.  He was good, coach."

Weber: "He gave us trouble.  How is Stamas doing?  He played for my brother."

Q: "He starts on our JV team, coach."

Weber: "JV team?  Must be a good JV team - he can play."

Q: "We think so.   So, that Indiana deal is a mess."

Weber: "Yeah, but I give those kids credit for playing through it."

Q: "True."

(Illini recruit walks into lobby.)

Weber: (Extending hand) "Good luck to the Titans, coach."

Q: "You too coach - hang in there."


Coach Steinbrueck (walking up): "What were you talking to Bruce Weber about??"

Q: "Just a couple coaches shooting the breeze, Stein."