MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Mr. Ypsi]

Q, bingo!

There's no such thing as too much talent, unless too many of them are prima donnas.  And until and unless Ron Rose proves otherwise, I will assume that he doesn't recruit prima donnas.

A kid who thinks he can get PT against all-CCIW-type talent ahead of him is the sort of kid I would want, as long as he can handle it if he can't (right away).  (Looks like quite a 'logjam' at the 4-5 as well - a 'problem' I can live with!)

With the last two recruiting classes of Coach Rose, anyone want to just concede the next 3-4 titles to IWU?

[Oh well, I tried! ]

[Gregory Sager]

With the last two recruiting classes of Coach Rose, anyone want to just concede the next 3-4 titles to IWU?

[Oh well, I tried! ]

Oh, brother.

I can see that you're not exactly trolling for added karma, are you, Chuck?

Here's a novel idea: Howzabout we just play out the next three or four years of CCIW basketball and see what happens, OK?

[Mr. Ypsi]

Yeah, I kinda expected that the next few seasons would get played, but a guy can try for a shortcut!   Sheeesh!

Having been in negative karma only a year-and-a-half or so ago, I learned not to worry about it.  It's now probably far higher than I deserve, and goes up or down pretty much regardless of what I post (though it seems to go down when I'm particularly nice!).  I just thought CCIW Chat could use a little (tongue-in-cheek) trash talk many months before the season begins.

But (unlike the sentiments of some) DON'T bring the season on - I wanna enjoy summer and fall first!

[AndOne]

I have also heard from an extremely solid source that Gonzalez is headed to Wesleyan. He'll face long odds there for any meaningful PT given last year's starters at guard were only freshmen, and the top backup was a soph.

AO, after the 2006-07 season (which totally fell apart with Dwyer's injury, and Gilmore gamely trying to play out of position on bad wheels), there's no such thing as too many PGs!   But with Dwyer only going to be a junior, and Rosenkranz a sophomore (plus fellow recruit Rudnicki from Evanston), I hope Gonzalez is either 'all that' or very patient (and preferably both!).

Mr----

You're sounding very much like a coach ("no such thing................").   

As has been discussed here before, some very good high school basketball players  are just going to have to be content with getting a great education and being a member of a very good, even possible championship, college team.

The harsh reality many are in for is that their college playing time will be severely limited, and the only real chance they have to set foot on the floor will be during the last minute or two of a blowout. I think this is especially tough on freshmen as being a star throughout high school, they have a very difficult time comprehending the fact there may be any, let alone a number of teammates at the next level who are better players. 

AO, something tells me that Gonzalez thrives on playing with teammates who might be considered better players. As Q said, he played with Carl Richard (Indiana St), Tommie Thomas (U. of Illinois football, QB), and junior Shaun Pratl, who has D1 major basketball and football offers.  Eliud is a gamer, and I really look forward to seeing him in Titan green!

He may indeed thrive on playing with better players titanfan, but the fact still remains that chances are overwhelming that he won't see any real playing time, baring injury to other players, until at least his junior year--unless u think Rose is suddenly gonna start sitting Rosenkranz, Dwyer, and Johnson and Gonzalez will emerge as the best PG out of all the other returnees and recruits who might play the same position (I know Johnson is the 2, but he can also do a credible job at point as evidenced by the beginning of last season). You might really be looking forward to "seeing him in Titan green," but for at least the next 2 years seeing him in the green is about all you are going to witness. Sorry, but you need to mix in a little reality with your enthusiasm.

[Titan Q]

He may indeed thrive on playing with better players titanfan, but the fact still remains that chances are overwhelming that he won't see any real playing time, baring injury to other players, until at least his junior year

That is probably true regarding Gonzalez, but is it really unusual for a good player to have to wait for varsity playing time for a couple years?  For example, here are the main varsity rotation members for Amherst in Salem this year:

Andrew Olson (Sr), Fletcher Walters (Sr), Brandon Jones (Sr), Brian Baskauksas (Jr), Kevin Hopkins (Sr), Mike Holsey (Jr), Matt Goldsmith (Sr)

And here is the boxscore for the IWU/Amherst national 3rd Place game in 2005-06:

http://www.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/mbb2006/ncaa6.htm

The only members of that loaded Amherst group - that went to Final Fours in '06, '07, and '08, and won the national title in '07 - to sniff the floor in the consolation game vs IWU for significant minutes were sophomores Olson (36 minutes), Hopkins (7 min), and Goldsmith (11 minutes).

The list of former IWU players who weren't in the varsity rotation as underclassmen is a long one that includes guys like Chris Simich (1996 CCIW M.O.P.), Brent Niebrugge (1998 M.O.P.), Brady Knight (PG on the '96 Final Four team), John Baines, Matt Hoder, Andy Boyden (all key members of the '97 national title team), etc, etc..  And I know Augustana has several good freshmen and sophs who have been behind the talented group ahead of them (Wessels, Washington, Collins, Swetalla, Betrand, etc).  2006 CCIW M.O.P. Rick Harrigan - a kid who had a lot of Division I interest - didn't get into the Augie rotation until his junior year.  I'd bet most good college teams have similar stories of kids (who were very good in high school) who didn't play as freshmen and sophomores.

There just isn't anything unusual about a kid having to wait his turn and earn his way into the rotation.

You might really be looking forward to "seeing him in Titan green," but for at least the next 2 years seeing him in the green is about all you are going to witness. Sorry, but you need to mix in a little reality with your enthusiasm.

I don't think titanfan suggested that he was going to start or be in the rotation right away.

[Titan Q]

With the last two recruiting classes of Coach Rose, anyone want to just concede the next 3-4 titles to IWU?

[Oh well, I tried! ]

IWU probably won't be picked any higher than 4th in '08-09.

[titanfan]

He may indeed thrive on playing with better players titanfan, but the fact still remains that chances are overwhelming that he won't see any real playing time, baring injury to other players, until at least his junior year--unless u think Rose is suddenly gonna start sitting Rosenkranz, Dwyer, and Johnson and Gonzalez will emerge as the best PG out of all the other returnees and recruits who might play the same position (I know Johnson is the 2, but he can also do a credible job at point as evidenced by the beginning of last season). You might really be looking forward to "seeing him in Titan green," but for at least the next 2 years seeing him in the green is about all you are going to witness. Sorry, but you need to mix in a little reality with your enthusiasm.

My enthusiasm tells me that the Titans have just added a player who is going to be a significant contributor his junior and senior years  to a team that could very well be very, very good.  That makes me excited. 

[iwumichigander]

With the last two recruiting classes of Coach Rose, anyone want to just concede the next 3-4 titles to IWU?

[Oh well, I tried! ]

IWU probably won't be picked any higher than 4th in '08-09.

I would have to agree Q.  I would put in alphabetical order Augustana, Elmhurst and Wheaton ahead of the Titans.  And, I don't believe Elmhurst will be a pre-season #1.  I see the Bluejays in contention for the conference title if a solid point guard emerges for them.

[theseguysaregood]

He may indeed thrive on playing with better players titanfan, but the fact still remains that chances are overwhelming that he won't see any real playing time, baring injury to other players, until at least his junior year

That is probably true regarding Gonzalez, but is it really unusual for a good player to have to wait for varsity playing time for a couple years?  For example, here are the main varsity rotation members for Amherst in Salem this year:

Andrew Olson (Sr), Fletcher Walters (Sr), Brandon Jones (Sr), Brian Baskauksas (Jr), Kevin Hopkins (Sr), Mike Holsey (Jr), Matt Goldsmith (Sr)

And here is the boxscore for the IWU/Amherst national 3rd Place game in 2005-06:

http://www.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/mbb2006/ncaa6.htm

The only members of that loaded Amherst group - that went to Final Fours in '06, '07, and '08, and won the national title in '07 - to sniff the floor in the consolation game vs IWU for significant minutes were sophomores Olson (36 minutes), Hopkins (7 min), and Goldsmith (11 minutes).

The list of former IWU players who weren't in the varsity rotation as underclassmen is a long one that includes guys like Chris Simich (1996 CCIW M.O.P.), Brent Niebrugge (1998 M.O.P.), Brady Knight (PG on the '96 Final Four team), John Baines, Matt Hoder, Andy Boyden (all key members of the '97 national title team), etc, etc..  And I know Augustana has several good freshmen and sophs who have been behind the talented group ahead of them (Wessels, Washington, Collins, Swetalla, Betrand, etc).  2006 CCIW M.O.P. Rick Harrigan - a kid who had a lot of Division I interest - didn't get into the Augie rotation until his junior year.  I'd bet most good college teams have similar stories of kids (who were very good in high school) who didn't play as freshmen and sophomores.

There just isn't anything unusual about a kid having to wait his turn and earn his way into the rotation.

You might really be looking forward to "seeing him in Titan green," but for at least the next 2 years seeing him in the green is about all you are going to witness. Sorry, but you need to mix in a little reality with your enthusiasm.

I don't think titanfan suggested that he was going to start or be in the rotation right away.

While in general I agree with your point, I think IWU's current situation is not the same as the others you have compared it to.  There were 11 freshman on last year's roster and now you are adding 8 in-coming freshman to that group.  Even if you leave out 2-3 of last year's freshman that weren't "recruited", that leaves a group of 16-17 kids when they are juniors and seniors.

Half of that group will not be "waiting their turn", they will never play any significant minutes.

At least in IWU's case, I have to agree with AndOne's previous post.

Based on what I can see from Augie's website, they seem to be more balanced in their roster and are bringing in 8 with only 1 freshman on last year's roster.

[Titan Q]

While in general I agree with your point, I think IWU's current situation is not the same as the others you have compared it to.  There were 11 freshman on last year's roster and now you are adding 8 in-coming freshman to that group.  Even if you leave out 2-3 of last year's freshman that weren't "recruited", that leaves a group of 16-17 kids when they are juniors and seniors.

Half of that group will not be "waiting their turn", they will never play any significant minutes.

At least in IWU's case, I have to agree with AndOne's previous post.

Based on what I can see from Augie's website, they seem to be more balanced in their roster and are bringing in 8 with only 1 freshman on last year's roster.

Coach G has wrapped up his 2007 recruiting class:

Brett Wessels, 6-2, 190 Combo Guard Bettendorf, IA/Transfer from Iowa
Keaton Frye, 6-4, 205 Swing Man Eldridge, IA/Transfer from Valpo
Mike Avallone, 6-4 Shooting Guard Naperville, IL Neuqua Valley HS
Kyle Nelson, 6-7, 195 Forward Deerfield HS
Amin Ekalino, 6-9, 185 Center  Rock Island HS
Drew Croegaert, 6-1, 165 Point Guard Geneseo HS
Bryant Voiles, 6-7, 175 Swing Man Bryon HS
Tyson McCreight, 6-2, 160 Guard Sherrard HS

I imagine the transfers will be ready to make an impact immediately, and Coach G is very excited about the upside of the high school kids. Nelson, Ekalino, and Avallone were their top three priorities of the high school seniors and I think all received interest from other CCIW schools. Ekalino's a great story. He's from Sudan and has only played basketball for three years. It'll be fun watching him develop.

Here's the release:

A trio of Quad City area standouts have put the finishing touches on the 2007 men's basketball recruiting class and Augustana head coach Grey Giovanine is enthused about the players who will be joining his program next year. Amin Ekalino (Rock Island HS, Rock Island, Ill.), Drew Croegaert (Geneseo HS, Geneseo, Ill.) and Tyson McCreight  (Sherrard HS, Sherrard, Ill.) have all announced that they will be members of the Vikings this fall. They join five other players to give Giovanine a class of eight players and he is excited about the group.

"This group should allow us to stay at the top of the CCIW and continue to strive for national prominence," said Giovanine who has led Augustana to three College Conference of Illinois & Wisconsin championships in the last five years (2003, 2005 and 2006) and two straight NCAA Division III national playoff appearances. "This is a fine class of student athletes with outstanding potential."

Ekalino, Croegaert and McCreight will be joined by NCAA Division I transfers Brett Wessels of Iowa (Bettendorf HS, Bettendorf, Iowa) and Keaton Frye of Valparaiso (North Scott HS, Davenport, Iowa) and current high school seniors Kyle Nelson (Deerfield HS, Deerfield, Ill.), Mike Avallone (Neuqua Valley HS, Naperville, Ill.) and Bryant Voiles (Byron HS, Byron, Ill.).

Ekalino, a 6' 9", 185 pound center, has only played organized basketball for three years and he made tremendous progress for head coach Thom Sigel and the Rocks. He led the Western Big Six in blocked shots, totaling 72 on the year and he was the Mediacom "Player of the Game" against Davenport North in the Iowa/Illinois Shootout last December. He was an all-area performer and he scored 12 points and grabbed seven rebounds as Rock Island beat United Township to win the Class AA regional.

Croegaert, a 6' 1", 165 pound guard, was a first team all-conference performer in the North Central Interscholastic Conference and was selected as the Maple Leaf MVP. He was a special mention all-state performer by the Illinois Basketball Coaches Association and was a three time all-Quad City Metro performer by the Moline Dispatch. He was also on the Geneseo Thanksgiving Tournament all-tournament team. He averaged 13.3 points, 2.5 rebounds and 2.8 assists per game while playing for former Augustana standout Brad Storm. His senior season was hampered by a wrist injury. He is also a standout track performer.

McCreight, a 6' 2", 165 pound guard, was a two time first team all-conference performer in the Olympic Conference. He averaged 21.3 points per game as a senior when he scored 576 points, both school records for the Tigers. He was also a two time all-area performer and was a special mention all-state selection. He helped lead Sherrard to the conference title as a sophomore and the regional championship as a junior. He was team captain and defensive MVP as a senior.

Wessels was the Iowa Class 4A "Player of the Year" in 2005 when he led Bettendorf to the state championship. Frye is the all-time career scoring leader at North Scott. Nelson is a 6' 7" forward who had a fine senior year at Deerfield while Voiles is a skilled big man who led Byron to a 29-2 record this past year. Avallone is a 6' 4" shooting guard who led Neuqua Valley to a 25-6 record and led his team in scoring at 11.0 points per game.

This group of players will join an Augustana program that is coming off back-to-back undisputed championship seasons in the College Conference of Illinois & Wisconsin. The Vikings went 22-6 overall this past year and were 11-3 in the CCIW and won their first ever CCIW tournament championship. They were ranked seventh in the final NCAA Division III national poll and made their second consecutive NCAA tournament appearance. Augustana was 23-6 overall and 11-3 in the league in 2005-06 and advanced to the "Sweet Sixteen" of the NCAA Division III national tournament.

Augustana head coach Grey Giovanine just finished his eighth year at the helm of the Vikings and he has a record of 142-65 during that time frame. He has been the CCIW's "Coach of the Year" and the Illinois Basketball Coaches Association's NCAA Division III "Coach of the Year" after each of the last two seasons.

Augustana
Chris Anderson (6-4 SF/PF, West Carroll) - 17.9 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 3.7 apg
Max Artis (6-3 SF/PF, Kirkwood, Mo.) - 15.0 ppg, 5.7 rpg, .592 FG, .674 FT
Brian DeSimone (6-1 PG/SG, Buffalo Grove) - 16.0 ppg
Griffin Dwyer (6-1 SG, Hersey H.S.) - 14.3 ppg
Josh Evans (6-4 SF/PF, Niles North)
Troy Rorer (6-2 G/F, Bettendorf) - 9.7 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 2.5 apg
Eric Safranski (6-0 PG/SG, Putnam County) - 12.9 ppg
Peter Wessels (6-3 SG, Bettendorf) - 10.7 ppg

6 + 8 = 14

[Mr. Ypsi]

Q, unless a couple of reported 2007 recruits didn't show up, that's actually 8+8=16.

[Pat Coleman]

Actually, no, since two of those 2007 class of eight were not freshmen Q is correct.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Oops, missed that two were transfers.

[Titan Q]

Augustana
Chris Anderson (6-4 SF/PF, West Carroll) - 17.9 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 3.7 apg
Max Artis (6-3 SF/PF, Kirkwood, Mo.) - 15.0 ppg, 5.7 rpg, .592 FG, .674 FT
Brian DeSimone (6-1 PG/SG, Buffalo Grove) - 16.0 ppg
Griffin Dwyer (6-1 SG, Hersey H.S.) - 14.3 ppg
Josh Evans (6-4 SF/PF, Niles North) - 13.2 ppg
Troy Rorer (6-2 G/F, Bettendorf) - 9.7 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 2.5 apg
Eric Safranski (6-0 PG/SG, Putnam County) - 12.9 ppg
Peter Wessels (6-3 SG, Bettendorf) - 10.7 ppg

Carthage
Pace Bennett (6-2 G, Rock Island Alleman) - 11 ppg, 4 apg
Jake Hasse (6-1 G, Naperville North) - 11.1 ppg

Elmhurst
Zack Boyd (6-2 G/F, Warrensburg-Latham) -  23.5 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 2.4 apg, .560 FG, .422 3-pt, .836 FT
Wes Dukeman (6-8/180 C, Arthur) - 16.0 ppg
David Lopez (6-1 G, Luther North)
Mike McCurdy (6-0 PG, Burlington Central) - 24.5 ppg, 6.0 apg, 4.0 rpg
A.J. Sutherlin (6-5 SF, North Montgomery H.S., Crawfordsville, IN) - 18.5 ppg, 7.2 rpg, .547 FG, .392 3-pt, .758 FT
Nathan Swarts (6-5/215 F/C, Monticello) - 12.5 ppg

Illinois Wesleyan
Ryan Connolly (6-8/255 C, Springfield Lanphier) - 16.2 ppg, 9.9 rpg
(new) Eliud Gonzalez (5-10 PG, Richards H.S.) - 7.4 ppg, 6.2 apg (203 total assists)
John Koschnitzky (6-6/205 SF/PF, Air Force Prep, Oak Forest H.S.) - 20.7 ppg, 9.4 rpg ('06-07, Oak Forest)
Eric McCullough (6-9/220 C, Normal U High) - 13.3 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 3.4 bpg, .540 FG
Steve Rudnicki (6-4/165 PG/SG, Evanston) - 9.8 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 4.3 apg
Sean Seibring (6-2 SG, Normal West) - 12.0 ppg
Dexter Walker (6-6/215 SF/PF, Morton) - 18.1 ppg, 5.4 rpg
Jordan Zimmer (6-4 G/F, Delavan) - 23.0 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 3.1 apg, 123-293 3-pt (.420), .913 FT

North Central
Kenny Branch (6-3 G/F, Mundelein)
Kevin Gillespie (5-10 PG, Geneseo) -  12.2 ppg, 3.8 apg, 66 3-pointers made
Josh Glenn (6-2 G, South Elgin) - 10.0 ppg
Lee Piccinelli (5-11 PG/SG, Henry) - 26.8 ppg
Tyler Ruschmeyer (6-5 F, Pekin) - 11.6 ppg

North Park
Joel Benson (6-5/225 F/C, Westminster Christian) - 18.3 ppg, 10.8 rpg
Dawon Mitchell (6-5/190 F, St. Joseph's)

Wheaton
Phil Carr (6-5 F, Southgate Anderson, MI) - 13.6 ppg, 11.4 rpg, .438 FG, .624 FT
Drake Diamond (6-8/225 F/C, Centreville, VA) - 4.8 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 38-76 FG (.500), 29-45 FT (.644)
Tim McCrary (6-6 F, New Trier) - 10 ppg, 7 rpg
Jeremy Pflederer (6-0 PG, Tremont) - 25.7 ppg, 8.8 rpg, .544 FG, .813 FT
Steve Pierotti (6-1 PG, Wheaton North) - 5.2 ppg
Spencer Schultze (6-6 C, Grand Rapids Christian, MI) - 13.3 ppg, 5.8 rpg, .530 FT, .650 FT

[Fox 40]

Here's a rundown of Augustana's non conference schedule for 2008-09:

Road games - Simpson, U of Chicago, St. Ambrose, UW La Crosse, Cornell,
                     MacMurray, and Beloit

Home games - Wash U., UW OshKosh, Knox, and Coe