MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[sac]

- Some teams are going to be hurt by not playing enough in-region games.  Illinois Wesleyan, for example, will only end of playing 6 of its 11 non-conference games "in-region."  Carthage, just 5 of 11.  On the flip side, Elmhurst is going to play all 11 of its non-conference games in-region.

It could be worse. Hope is going to enter MIAA play with only one regional non-conference game under its belt, that game being its loss to Wheaton. Calvin will enter MIAA play without having played even one regional non-conference game, unless it faces Defiance in either the consolation game or the championship game of the Dec. 29-30 tourney at Defiance. We've all discussed the problems that MIAA teams face in getting regional non-conference games due to the peculiarities of the league's peninsular orientation, but Glenn Van Wieren and Kevin VandeStreek seem to have a perverse insistence upon avoiding regional non-conference games that goes well beyond the vagaries of geography. Instead, they load up their non-conference schedules with the same handful of NAIA and NCCAA teams every season (Grace Bible, Aquinas, Cornerstone, Trinity Christian, various Indiana and Purdue branch campuses, etc.). This could be one of those years in which either Hope or Calvin -- or both, if Albion takes the MIAA's automatic bid in Jody May's first season at the helm -- gets left out in the cold on Selection Sunday in spite of a good season because of a coach's obstinate refusal to schedule regional non-conference games.

The MIAA people aren't going to enjoy reading this, and I'm sure we'll hear from them about the importance of specific local rivalries against NAIA and NCCAA teams based in western Michigan; the vexing problem of HCAC, NCAC, and OAC teams declining to play Hope and/or Calvin, etc. But rules are rules. I don't make them; I just report them. Like it or not, MIAA fans, Hope's and Calvin's scheduling works contrary to the ultimate purposes of those two programs, if you consider at least one of the ultimate purposes to be a berth in the D3 tournament.

Those are all great points, but in this particular year the only team from the MIAA to make the tournament will be the MIAA tournament winner and even that team probably wouldn't have been in contention in most years.

I'll only remind you, scheduling is a two-way street. 

Its very simple, win your conference tournament and you don't have to worry about all the other non-sense, and it is non-sense.

[Thunder Dutch]

how does the CCIW non-conference record currently stack up against the other conferences around the nation?

[usee]

I am a little concerned about Wheaton's readiness for what will likely be a brutal CCIW slate. Wheaton's 8-0 record comes against teams with a combined record of 23-43. I see Elmhurst, IWU and Augie all playing much tougher opponents and being battle tested for the conference slate. Wheaton opens conference play with IWU, NPU and Augie so we will find out but I am worried they haven't really had a tough game so far. I am sure part of that is the fact that they have played well this season but I don't see them getting the benefit of a tough non conference slate (they scheduled teams that are traditionally very good but having off years) the way the other top teams have.

[AndOne]

I am a little concerned about Wheaton's readiness for what will likely be a brutal CCIW slate. Wheaton's 8-0 record comes against teams with a combined record of 23-43. I see Elmhurst, IWU and Augie all playing much tougher opponents and being battle tested for the conference slate. Wheaton opens conference play with IWU, NPU and Augie so we will find out but I am worried they haven't really had a tough game so far. I am sure part of that is the fact that they have played well this season but I don't see them getting the benefit of a tough non conference slate (they scheduled teams that are traditionally very good but having off years) the way the other top teams have.

USee----

I have not as yet analyzed the overall Elmhurst and IWU schedules, but I wouldn't say Augie has faced a very tough schedule either. Including their next opponent, Coe, Augie's opponents have a combined record of only 37-58. They have really only played ONE "quality" opponent, Wash U., and they lost that game. Other than Wash U, Augie has only played one other team with a winning record, that being 7-2 Cornell, a team I believe just about every CCIW team would beat. Their schedule has included TWO winless teams, Chicago and Knox who have combined for a sterling 0-18 record. Feel a little better now?

Augie fans---What do you think about Augie's non conference schedule? You have the up close, personal view that the rest of us don't. Augie has an exceptional record of having won the conference championship the last 3 yrs, and currently enjoys the #8 national ranking. Have they achieved this lofty ranking primarily based on their record over the last 3 years and a very weak non conference schedule this year, or is their #8 ranking deserved? Would appreciate your input, especially from our "regulars" like Dansand, Augiefan, Viking Blue, and Viking Mike, and any others.   

[79jaybird]

Usee, I thought about that too with Wheaton this year, as I have had this thought about Elmhurst in year's past (football too).
This year, Elmhurst stepped up the competition playing toughies like UWL, UWSP, Wash U, etc.

I wouldn't worry too much about Wheaton as I think they are going to be in every game.  

GREAT WIN for Elmhurst against a great team.  It felt like a playoff game and was fun to call on the air.  
I also felt like we were playing IWU as they had a great crowd (which outnumbered Elmhurst's   )  and were green like IWU.

[thundermike11]

I am a little concerned about Wheaton's readiness for what will likely be a brutal CCIW slate. Wheaton's 8-0 record comes against teams with a combined record of 23-43. I see Elmhurst, IWU and Augie all playing much tougher opponents and being battle tested for the conference slate. Wheaton opens conference play with IWU, NPU and Augie so we will find out but I am worried they haven't really had a tough game so far. I am sure part of that is the fact that they have played well this season but I don't see them getting the benefit of a tough non conference slate (they scheduled teams that are traditionally very good but having off years) the way the other top teams have.

I've thought the same thing. Up until the last two games Wheaton had answered the doubts I had by their play. But the games against Webster and Wartburg have me concerned. This is not meant to defame those two teams, but honestly the Thunder should have won both of those games by 25 or more. I didn't see the Webster game, but that was the general feeling I got from the players. I was at the Wartburg game, and it was one of those wins that kind of felt like a loss because the overall team defense was quite poor. Wheaton needs to be a great defensive team by the time conference play starts, and they have shown flashes of being such a team (the Chicago game being an example). It might be unrealistic to expect such an effort every night, but giving up 76 points to Wartburg is not a good omen when teams like Augie and Elmhurst are waiting in the wings. Hopefully the tournament next week will be filled with great D by Wheaton, and maybe they can keep Grinnell below 100?

[hickory_cornhusker]

DECEMBER 12, 2008  
Carroll awaits response to joining CCIW
WAUKESHA - Carroll University is awaiting word from the College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin on whether it is interested in the school rejoining its former conference.

Source: http://www.freemanol.com/

Under Prep sports section...

The article is unlinkable from the Freeman Online site. Could somebody who has access to it please tell me if the article approached Carthage's President Campbell to get his inevitable "Carroll will rejoin this league over my dead body!" quote?

Instead of adding one to get 9, maybe the CCIW is adding one to stay at 8? 

/ducks out of thread.

Why?  Who's going D-II?

Heard Carthage is considering this

Hmmm...  Do I smell a linkage here?

The plot thickens.

[At least I won't have to learn a new shorthand for note-making (either C or Car, depending on how lazy I am) if Carroll replaces Carthage - but does Carroll have any fans to replace the Redmen fans?]

Until I hear otherwise, I'm gonna think this is much ado about nothing.

I've heard from a few coaches at Carroll that they are not leaving the MWC.

[AndOne]

Observations from the Elmhurst-Washington U game which I attended Sat.

1. Elmhurst took down #1 despite not playing as well as I feel they can.
2. The Bluejay interior defense was, frankly, pretty stinky. Wash U probably got  8-9 baskets on layups where no EC defender was within 5 feet of the WU player. WU was able to execute several back door cuts and pick and roll plays almost as if their were no EU players on the court. It looked like the EC post defenders were over committing in coming over from the weak side in help defense situations.
3. I was sitting with a couple of members of a "basketball club" who regularly travel to games at Wheaton, North Central, Elmhurst, and possibly North Park to watch games. They said they had seen EC lose to Stevens Point, and didn't expect that Ryan Burks would do much against WU based on how they felt he played against UWSP. I told them if he had a bad game it was uncharacteristic, and I felt he would show them what he could do against WU. And step up Mr. Burks did!
4. Contrary to what I'm used to, Brent Ruch was not a major factor throughout most of the game, especially in terms of scoring. However, down the stretch, he hit some very big free throws--4 in a row late, I believe. So hack a Brent is apparently not a sound defensive move.
5. Zach Boyd started for EC. He is a good looking freshman. However, based on what I saw, Mike McCurdy is better. Boyd seems to play rather tentatively. McCurdy appears both more aggressive and sure of himself.
6. Whenever WU made a run at EU, the Bluejays answered. Impressive.
7. Despite being behind virtually the whole game, WU never really showed a sense of urgency. It was like they expected to win just by being on the court.     
8. Sean Wallis is no doubt a very good player. However, I have to believe there are several guards around the country who are just as good. One thing he as mastered is the ability to take as many as 3-4 steps and not have traveling called against him. He basically runs with the ball on his hip and then dishes off underneath.
9. Wash U can go 10 deep with virtually no noticeable drop off in their talent level.
10. I unfortunately observed about the worst fan behavior I've ever seen from a Wash U fan. We all yell at the refs when the call goes against our team, and he was no exception, other than the "severity" of his criticism. What I couldn't believe was how he talked about HIS teams players. A couple of times Sean Wallis missed free throw attemps and he yelled at Wallis "whats the matter with you stupid, get the GD ball over the rim you stupid s--t." Another time #5 on WU committed a turnover and then missed a shot from deep in the corner in rapid succession. He yelled "first you make a dumb ass play and they you miss a long shot, you really have no clue, you stupid SOB." Maybe someone reading this knows who this guy is. He has salt and pepper rather closely cropped hair and wore a dark blue "warmup" suit outfit. This is the same guy who attended summer league games at Deerfield and criticized OTHER teams players saying things like certain players could never play on a "good" team like WU.   

[Titan Q]

I am a little concerned about Wheaton's readiness for what will likely be a brutal CCIW slate. Wheaton's 8-0 record comes against teams with a combined record of 23-43. I see Elmhurst, IWU and Augie all playing much tougher opponents and being battle tested for the conference slate. Wheaton opens conference play with IWU, NPU and Augie so we will find out but I am worried they haven't really had a tough game so far. I am sure part of that is the fact that they have played well this season but I don't see them getting the benefit of a tough non conference slate (they scheduled teams that are traditionally very good but having off years) the way the other top teams have.

Partly due to the fact that a couple traditionally strong programs are down this year, IWU's schedule has actually been weak...

vs Taylor-Fort Wayne (neutral)
@ Manchester
vs Maryville (Mo.)
@ Olivet Nazarene
@ Wash U
vs Hamilton (neutral)
@ Hanover
vs Chicago

Still to play:

vs St. Xavier (neutral)
@ Northwood U. or vs Missouri Baptist


Wash U and Olivet Nazarene are the two best teams IWU has faced so far, and ONU is not as good as they usually are.  In West Palm Beach, FL next weekend, if the Titans can get by NAIA DI St. Xavier (another very good program down from recent years), they'll face what I think will be their toughest test of the entire non-conference season, vs NAIA D2 #3 Northwood, coached by Rollie Massimino.

If Hanover and U. of Chicago were where they usually are, IWU's schedule would be a lot stronger.  As it is though, IWU's non-conference slate is not that strong.

Regarding Wheaton, I agree - their schedule has been weak.  Not their fault Hope and Calvin are down, and that Loras is rebuilding, and Chicago is 0-10.  Wheaton has notoriously played a very weak non-conference schedule...I think this year they intended to play a good one, but it hasn't turned out that way.

[Titan Q]

Augie fans---What do you think about Augie's non conference schedule? You have the up close, personal view that the rest of us don't. Augie has an exceptional record of having won the conference championship the last 3 yrs, and currently enjoys the #8 national ranking. Have they achieved this lofty ranking primarily based on their record over the last 3 years and a very weak non conference schedule this year, or is their #8 ranking deserved? Would appreciate your input, especially from our "regulars" like Dansand, Augiefan, Viking Blue, and Viking Mike, and any others.   

Speaking as a longtime voter in the poll, I will just add that, here in December, not many teams have "earned" their ranking.  Most rankings at this stage still have more to do more with 2007-08 results and preseason assumptions than actual 2008-09 season results.  Afterall, Wheaton doesn't "deserve" to be ranked #2 based on anything that has happened so far this year (they should be undefeated with their schedule)...most of the Thunder's current ranking has to do with last year and who returned. 

Augustana won one the nation's best conferences last year and took the eventual national champions to overtime in the NCAA tournament.  The Vikings returned all but one player from that team.  Despite two losses, I still think #8 is fair for now.  By late January, the polls sorts itself out.

[hopefan]

andone - you should have said something to the jerk  -  I hate that kind of stuff - I go to Wash U games down here in St Louis and haven't observed that kind of behavior, but the seating is widespread, I could have easily missed it if it has occurred down here...  you have piqued my curiosity however....

[mr_b]

I unfortunately observed about the worst fan behavior I've ever seen from a Wash U fan.... This is the same guy who attended summer league games at Deerfield and criticized OTHER teams players saying things like certain players could never play on a "good" team like WU.   

He's a joy to everyone he meets.

[Viking Blue]

I unfortunately observed about the worst fan behavior I've ever seen from a Wash U fan.... This is the same guy who attended summer league games at Deerfield and criticized OTHER teams players saying things like certain players could never play on a "good" team like WU.   

He's a joy to everyone he meets.

Sorry guys...sometimes the heat of the moment gets ahold of me.

[Viking Blue]

Augie fans---What do you think about Augie's non conference schedule? You have the up close, personal view that the rest of us don't. Augie has an exceptional record of having won the conference championship the last 3 yrs, and currently enjoys the #8 national ranking. Have they achieved this lofty ranking primarily based on their record over the last 3 years and a very weak non conference schedule this year, or is their #8 ranking deserved? Would appreciate your input, especially from our "regulars" like Dansand, Augiefan, Viking Blue, and Viking Mike, and any others.  
[/quote]

While I would love to give my expert opinion on Augustana, I would like this opportunity to remind all involved that Viking Blue refers to the conference's 5 time national champion Vikings.  Not the "other" ones.

Carry on.....

[79jaybird]

Andone- good point.  I heard the Wash U fan through our crowd mic a few times.  Very unsportsmanlike and no matter who you root for,  you don't say things like that.   Just downgrades yourself, your school, and the player.

So where do you think WC/EC/Augie will win up in this week's poll?    Do you think Wheaton slides into #1?  Does Elmhurst leapfrog Augie after the upset of #1 and keep in mind, EC beat UW-L and Wash U?  Lot of question marks.

I just hope Elmhurst does overlook Anderson.  This is a pretty good team in Indiana and they cannot walk into the Raven's bard thinking that just because they upset #1, this will be a walk in the park. 

Yes, Wash U effectively took Ruch out of the game for 85% of the game.  HOWEVER,  Ruch's free throws late in the game were the final nails in the coffin.  How often do we see teams lose games late due to missed FT's? 

A good sign of the team and depth of Elmhurst was the rest of the team rallying around Ruch so when BR is covered, Burks, Stzremp, Boyd, etc. were able to step up.