MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Sakman 1111]

First comes Milliken so let's not mention Wheaton until the Bluejays get even for the thumping they gave the Bluejays the first time out. Need solid games on the road again from the big 4 Ruchs,Burks,Strzemp,and Childs. To take a phrase from the WIAC football board.....I am hoping for a Bluejay monkey stomping.....

[andrewmp]

This past season? The Cards averaged 42,353 (90.4%) in their new ballpark in 2008, while the Cubs averaged 40,743 (a MLB-leading 99.1%) at Wrigley. As always, both teams finished in the top ten in the majors in total attendance, average attendance, and average percentage of capacity filled. Meanwhile, the White Sox averaged 30,877 (76.0%), finishing in the lower half of the majors in both total attendance and average attendance and 13th in average percentage of capacity filled.

I know that I am nitpicking Greg, but it was actually the Red Sox who lead the MLB at a whopping 104% (Every game a sell out, plus standing room only tickets is how they got to that number I believe).  As a lifetime Boston fan (my dad grew up there and I grew up in NH), I knew that Boston had that percentage beat before I went to the link.  Being in Chicago for the past 9 years, I was really pulling for that Cubs-Red Sox World series back in '03.  In fact, that is the series I still want to see more than any other.

As far as next year is concerned, it will be interesting to see what happens with the seniors gone.  Carthage, IWU, and Wheaton will all have a lot of strong pieces back (although Wheaton loses two of its biggest in Wiele and Raymond).  It is way too soon to tell, but I think it will be a very interesting league next year, and maybe anyone's to take.

I have a question for those who saw the first Elmhurst/Millikin game: What were the factors that lead to the Millikin win, both what Elmhurst didn't do, and what Millikin did do?

[79jaybird]

What were the factors that led to the Millikin win first time around?
Pretty simple here
1) outhustled
2) turnovers
3) Bluejays thinking the game was won in the first half up 14

Now- when Elmhurst played MU the first time EC was looking for consistency from their guard play.  Frankly, I think this is going to be a tough game for Elmhurst. (Just as NC)  I think Millikin's energy level is such that they can outhuscle EC again.

What I hope happens is Elmhurst using their size shooting abilities at the FT line to their advantage.

[Gregory Sager]

The stats are all true...you can't deny that, but I love this stance for three reasons:

One -  We get it.  The Cubs are a national brand with a national tourist destination as a ballpark.  The Sox are a local club.  No Sox fans have issues with this, and while all Sox fans should want to go to more games in a sold out Cell....its just not going to happen when your drawing from a much smaller fanbase.

That "small market" argument on behalf of the White Sox just doesn't wash. True, the Cubs have a national following and the White Sox have a local following. But that local following is within a market of nine million people. Small market? Who are you guys kidding?
 

Two - When Cubs fans bring up this issue as a bit of banter to Sox fans, it completely ruins the popular Cubbie claim that their fans are only concerned with the Cubs and not bashing the Sox, while they say that its only the Sox fans that are obsessed with bashing the other team in town.

Not true. The fan-support issue is invariably brought up in self-defense when a White Sox fan starts in on the Cubs, which is typically the way that the banter begins. It wasn't brought up in self-defense in this particular instance, since Bob's one of those White Sox fans who isn't obsessed with bashing the other team in town. I brought it up strictly to correct a point about fan loyalty, as that was the point originally raised by Late night and rebutted by Bob. Context, voxelmhurst, context!

I don't hate the White Sox. I don't watch a lot of their games (largely because Hawk Harrelson annoys me to no end), but they have likeable players, and they've usually been more entertaining to watch in terms of pure baseball skills and execution in recent years than have the Cubs. My indifference towards the team on the South Side is something that I have in common with an awful lot of other Cubs fans.

I'm not saying that there aren't a lot of Cubs fans that dislike the White Sox. But much of that dislike is defensive in nature, bred by being hassled about the Cubs from White Sox fans, not by any inherent sense of rivalry. The Cubs already have a rival, as every Cubs fan knows very well, and it's not the White Sox. It's the St. Louis Cardinals -- you know, the team that the Cubs have actually been playing for the past 120 years. Why the heck can't White Sox fans find a rival within their own league? Minnesota already hates your team. Why not focus on reciprocating that hatred, rather than saving all of your ire for the team on the other side of town that isn't even in the same league as you, much less the same division?

Fact is, the animosity in Chicagoland largely flows one way.

Three - In the world of underachieving Chicago baseball, the best both sets of fans can do is have crutches to lean on.   The Cubbies have their attandance and "friendly confines" to lean on....whereas at least we Sox fans have a championship.   

No argument there ... although, properly speaking, you had a championship. You don't have a championship; Phillies fans are the only people who can crow about that at the moment. Your last one is three years old already; granted, it's a heck of a lot more recent than the Cubs' last world championship, but it didn't happen yesterday, either.

And, yes, I'd trade any attendance record out there for a World Series championship on the North Side.

I know that I am nitpicking Greg, but it was actually the Red Sox who lead the MLB at a whopping 104% (Every game a sell out, plus standing room only tickets is how they got to that number I believe).

I at first thought that that figure was a typo, which is why I disregarded it on the ESPN site. Then I went back and read a Hardball Times article that linked to it, and it turns out that Boston did indeed draw an average of 104% per capacity. That's quite remarkable, although it's also worth noting that Fenway holds 3,000 less than does Wrigley.

Being in Chicago for the past 9 years, I was really pulling for that Cubs-Red Sox World series back in '03.  In fact, that is the series I still want to see more than any other.

I don't care who the Cubs play in the World Series. They can play the freakin' Yomiuri Giants for all I care. I just want them to play in the World Series. Oh, and win it as long as they're there.

And with that, I'll close and await the inevitable snide remarks about the North Siders from inveterate Cubs hater / White Sox fan Viking Blue.

[augiefan]

Right on about NCC's seniors. Going into next season IWU and Carthage look to have the best returning talent.

[Naperick]

What were the factors that led to the Millikin win first time around?
Pretty simple here
1) outhustled
2) turnovers
3) Bluejays thinking the game was won in the first half up 14

Now- when Elmhurst played MU the first time EC was looking for consistency from their guard play.  Frankly, I think this is going to be a tough game for Elmhurst. (Just as NC)  I think Millikin's energy level is such that they can outhuscle EC again.

What I hope happens is Elmhurst using their size shooting abilities at the FT line to their advantage.

79Jaybird is right on.  Millikin just seemed to want that game more.  The Bluejays have enjoyed success in Decatur the last 8-10 years but it will not be an easy game on Saturday night at the Griswold Center.  Millikin is athletic and intense.

[andrewmp]

What were the factors that led to the Millikin win first time around?
Pretty simple here
1) outhustled
2) turnovers
3) Bluejays thinking the game was won in the first half up 14

Now- when Elmhurst played MU the first time EC was looking for consistency from their guard play.  Frankly, I think this is going to be a tough game for Elmhurst. (Just as NC)  I think Millikin's energy level is such that they can outhuscle EC again.

What I hope happens is Elmhurst using their size shooting abilities at the FT line to their advantage.

In the game Wednesday night, Millikin didn't come across as a team that could outhussle too many other teams in the CCIW.  This may be a result of only seeing them play one game.  I am not saying they are loafing, but they didn't come across as being an aggressive team like Augie.  In the second half especially, Wheaton seemed to have them on their heels, getting some great back door cuts.

[iwumichigander]

I know that I am nitpicking Greg, but it was actually the Red Sox who lead the MLB at a whopping 104% (Every game a sell out, plus standing room only tickets is how they got to that number I believe).

I at first thought that that figure was a typo, which is why I disregarded it on the ESPN site. Then I went back and read a Hardball Times article that linked to it, and it turns out that Boston did indeed draw an average of 104% per capacity. That's quite remarkable, although it's also worth noting that Fenway holds 3,000 less than does Wrigley.

While winning helps, the Red Sox attendance success is largely the result of the ownership team which purchased the Red Sox from the Yawkey family.  Mr. Yawkey was, well, cheap;and, never really put the investment into players and facilities required to compete with the Yankees.  Upon his death, Mrs. Yawkey took over and charged the clubs management with building up the team with only really limited funds.  She was smart enough to make the right investments that made the team an attractive buy and stubborn enough to be as selective as possible in getting the right new ownership team.  Today, Red Sox season tickets have become more of an investment than a luxury.

[dansand]

Hey!!---Where are all the Augie supporters---They've hit a rough patch and all the Vike posters have gone into the bunker mentality---It's easy to support a team when they're winning (White Sox and Card fans), but real fans support their team through thick and thin (Cub fans)---ALOT of thin---Let's not be front-runners---We've been on top way too long---I think the term is, "gracious in defeat"

I'm not sure who "all the Augie supporters" are  (they've always been pretty sparse and sporadic), but don't worry Late Nite, I'm still here.

Just to clarify, I meant Augie supporters posting on this chatboard were sparse and sporadic, not Augie supporters in general. I'd love it if more Viking fans would chime in. I can only think of three or four who post even semi-regularly.

By the way Dansand how is the Augie JV team doing this year? Not to get ahead of ourselves, but a lot of good seniors will be departing Rock Island after this season, so hopefully help is on the way. I have high hopes for Max Artis, if his competitive spirit is anything like his dad's. Elmhurst and Wheaton lose big time seniors this year too, so there will be a lot of new faces next year.

Also, is there any word on who Augie is recruiting in this year's group of high school seniors?

The Jayvee guys are doing fine. I think they are 9-7 overall, but four of those losses have come to three junior college programs with a combined record of 58-12. So they're 9-3 against other D3 JV teams. Also, having not brought in much size in this year's recruiting class, they're playing with a roster that only has one true post player (Max, who's 6-3). Coach Jessee has used Pete Wessels (6-2) as his backup center most of the time this year. It's interesting to see how different programs manage their JV units. Some schools (like Augie) really concentrate on player and system development, while others seem to just turn their guys loose.

As far as recruiting goes, this early in the recruiting season the list of prospects is still pretty long.

[Late nite]

Hey!!---Where are all the Augie supporters---They've hit a rough patch and all the Vike posters have gone into the bunker mentality---It's easy to support a team when they're winning (White Sox and Card fans), but real fans support their team through thick and thin (Cub fans)---ALOT of thin---Let's not be front-runners---We've been on top way too long---I think the term is, "gracious in defeat"

This southside native and lifelong White Sox fan sure doesn't agree with this sentiment at all.  And with a father who grew up in southern Illinois as a diehard Cardinals fan, and spending lots of time in St. Louis the last 5 years or so (and now living in Missouri), I think you're absolutely nuts if you think Cardinals fans are front-runners.

Ooo!  Paws up!

[Pat Coleman]

I'd love it if more Viking fans would chime in. I can only think of three or four who post even semi-regularly.

Perhaps some of the Augie broadcast listeners would join us if nudged to on the air.

[voxelmhurst]

 

Not true. The fan-support issue is invariably brought up in self-defense when a White Sox fan starts in on the Cubs, which is typically the way that the banter begins. It wasn't brought up in self-defense in this particular instance, since Bob's one of those White Sox fans who isn't obsessed with bashing the other team in town. I brought it up strictly to correct a point about fan loyalty, as that was the point originally raised by Late night and rebutted by Bob. Context, voxelmhurst, context!

I gotcha.  I was more referring to the issue in a general sense between fans at large, rather than in your direct reply to the other posters.

Actually....this baseball talk has started to get me thinking....what CCIW school is most comparable to what MLB franchise!  

[Viking Mike]

Well here's another Augie fan chiming in!!!

I am on the site daily but don't always have the time to chat.
I'm an alumni who follows the Vikes thru thick and thin.
I also enjoy the insight that DanSand shares with us about Augustana basketball!

The Vikings are indeed struggling on the offensive end against the better teams.  When they are not able to run against the upper echilon teams, they struggle to find a shot.  It can be very frustrating.  They have missed a countless number of gimmees right under the basket all year.   It also seems like some of our better offensive players have lost their confidence in taking shots.  It seems like no one wants to take a shot at the basket.  When they run, they look like one of the better teams in the country with their stellar defense.  Here's hoping Coach can find some kind of offensive firepower in these last few weeks as I fear the Vikes are only a loss away from the NCAA bubble.  The Vikes have another tough one in Carthage tomorrow night.  I only hope Delp and Wessels can find their shots and Washington can be as aggressive as he was Wed night.  A healthy Bertrand would be great as well.  And no matter what........a strong contigent of Augie Faithful will again fill the Carver Center to cheer on the Vikings.

DanSand---Any ideas what Coach can do to kick start his offense?  is it a matter of lack of aggressive play or do we just not have the offense we thought we had.  Are they expending too much energy on defense and coming up short on the offensive side???

[ecdubb420]

Funny.  Elmhurst would have to be a team that was horrible forever and then finally found a nice string of success. 

2016 Olympics, Cubs in town for 20 straight games, Sox on the road.  I don't even want to know what prices would be paid by tourists from all corners of the world for tickets to Wrigley.  Unfortunately when the stadium collapses killing people from 100 different nations, worldwide panic will set in. I kid, I kid.

Back to hoops
Brent Ruch for MOP, 1st team All-American??
I think he has slipped ahead of Steve D, and is just a tad behind Raymond.  If Brent and EC sweep Wheaton and Carthage, that award is his. 

[petemcb]

Hey!!---Where are all the Augie supporters---They've hit a rough patch and all the Vike posters have gone into the bunker mentality---It's easy to support a team when they're winning (White Sox and Card fans), but real fans support their team through thick and thin (Cub fans)---ALOT of thin---Let's not be front-runners---We've been on top way too long---I think the term is, "gracious in defeat"

I'm not sure who "all the Augie supporters" are  (they've always been pretty sparse and sporadic), but don't worry Late Nite, I'm still here. I am a Cub fan so obviously not a front-runner. Actually, I thought your post #18007 pretty muched summed up the Vikings recent problems, and the Elmhurst game was no exception. Just not enough offense against good teams. Their defense Wednesday was solid against a Bluejay team that is both very good offensively and has really been on a roll lately. Playing great defense keeps Augie in games (and in the first meeting with Elmhurst it was even enough to overcome a bad night offensively), but when they don't get consistent offensive production it just makes it awfully tough to beat the league's top teams.

One difference defensively, I thought, between Wednesday's game and the first meeting was that with Justin Bertrand still not quite at full strength, the Vikes ran more weak side help over when the Bluejays entered the ball to Ruch and I think that freed up Strzemp to have much more of an impact offensively than he did at Carver.

Getting Bert back to 100% should help some with the offensive struggles, but it'll take more than just that, as they struggled at times even before he got hurt. I like how Alex Washington attacked the basket down the stretch Wednesday. Hopefully, that will continue. Carthage is up next and Augie really had trouble with their zone in Kenosha. They'll need to attack it better Saturday.

I saw Alex Washington play for Hersey and thought he was a can't miss CCIW star.  I even told the North Park coaching staff about him.

For four years he's been at Augustana we hear these great comments about his play once in a while - and I too saw it once or twice last week against North Park.

But I think, here was a player who's potential to be an outstanding star in the CCIW was defeated by the college system he chose to play for.  Yes, he's been on three straight league championship teams, however, he could have been the star of any team that would have allowed him to use his penetrating skills on a consistent basis for 35 minutes a game.  He's had a nice career.

dgp

Dennis, other than the fact that I watched Alex Washington play for Wheeling, I'm in full agreement of your assessment of his projected skills and potential impact coming out of high school AND his squelching by what is an admittedly effective system at Augie.  I think Washington could have been a stud at NPU, Carthage, and probably a few other schools as well.  In high school, he seemed to operate almost as freely and effectively as Rob Garnes did for Rolling Meadows.  Obviously, he's had a great education available to him at Augie.  As a CCIW fan, from a basketball perspective, I'm disappointed that he didn't get a chance to play a more creative brand of basketball these last four years.  He would have been fun to watch.