MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[titan2000]

Q, don't bite the bait with T2K.

While more persistent than most trolls, he is a troll nonetheless.

Thanks for the compliment, Ypsi.  No wonder you have such an impressive karma count. I admire that.

[petemcb]

Pete,
My contention was with your  following statement "Fifteen points, many of which were from the free throw line resulting from fouls that were not Hilton's, is a sub-par game for Raymond."   This was simply not true since 6 of the 12 free throws were directly attributed to fouls by Hilton.  (check the play by play)
By the way Wiele didn't grab someone at half-court or when they had the ball.  Occasion touches/checks are normal but we're talking in the process of stretching the other guys jersey so it distorts the numbers.
thats the sort of thing to which I was referring.

If 6 of the 12 were a result of Hilton's fouls, then the other 6 were not.  I think 3 fouls on somebody who's not even a regular starter but is now guarding  a D3 All-American is an impressive performance.  If you're nit-picking that 6 of 12 does not constitute "many" and that I should have said "half" then I'll give you that, although it doesn't seem worth debating.  No need to check the play by play.  I watched it.

I didn't say anything about Wiele "grabbing someone at half-court or when they had the ball", but  I wasn't aware that holding fouls only applied if the player being grabbed happened to be holding the ball.  I know touches and checks, and what Wiele was doing under the basket did not qualify as "touches and checks".  

I was saying that 6 of 12 is "many".  Just trying to hold you to your words.  You made it sound like Hilton had little to do with Raymond going to the line.    I watched it too and used it to verify what I thought happened.  Don't let the facts get in the way.    Also Wiele was whistled for all his fouls.  Hilton fouled out after non-intentionally intentionally fouling Jahns in the last seconds.  So 8 of Wheaton's 17 made freethrows or 47% of them were results of Hilton fouls

Ok Pete,
I realize you're a closet wheaton fan but seriously I think Carthage's seatbacks are better than Wheaton's.   The only thing they are missing is drink holders in both venues.
You're also right no one beats Klaus' food.
+k to you for putting up with this

Agreed on the Carthage seatbacks.  I just eliminated them from consideration for the weekend.  Carthage would be very fortunate to be IN the tournament.  The hosting option died a few games ago.

In terms of the food, I'd even take that steak/beef/whatever sandwich with some of those fine fries in the Stupe, washed down with my favorite drink:  Dr. Pepper.

On the rest of that, I'm done, although not conceding.  Just done.  Hopefully, I'll get to run into some of you guys next weekend.  Hopefully at Wheaton.....for the aforementioned reasons. 

[Gregory Sager]

Greg, let me try this one.  AndOne and CardinalPride, my understanding of the usage of "backed in" is that it is typically used when a team makes the playoffs or tournament on a night where it lost the game it played.  It is not a comment or a slam on NCC's season.  They've had a great season, but on the night they clinched their appearance in the CCIW tournament, they happened to lose.  That's all. 

Thanks, Pete. That's exactly what I meant -- nothing more and nothing less.

Interesting morning on CCIW Chat. Who would've thought that by invoking the name "Cody Hilton", of all people, I'd inadvertently be pulling the pin on a grenade?

[petemcb]

Actually, I'm just tired of "starter" status under my name and was trying to move up to the next level.....

[iwumichigander]

If I'm understanding the question correctly (cuz I'm not a great X's and O's kinda guy), I think I would answer Sean Dwyer and IWU.  Did I get the question?

No, from the games I saw last year with Dwyer v Raymond they employed a similar strategy that Carthage seemingly did last night. Dwyer tried to get into Raymond's shorts but he had help to slow him down off every screen while he fought over the top. That has the effect of keepiing Raymond from pulling up uncontested for jumpers and forces him away from the basket to allow the defense to reset. One reason it didn't work as well this year was because McCrary, Carwell and Wiele were much better at slipping to the basket off those picks to get easy buckets. Wheaton didn't have that last year and IWU had Gant, who was a premiere defender and made those passes and buckets much harder. That's my 2 cents but Q and others saw more games last year than I did.

Fair assessment.  And, Gant's quickness and athleticism enabled him to take more risks while being able to recover more so than other atypical 5 'bigs'.

[petemcb]

Greg, let me try this one.  AndOne and CardinalPride, my understanding of the usage of "backed in" is that it is typically used when a team makes the playoffs or tournament on a night where it lost the game it played.  It is not a comment or a slam on NCC's season.  They've had a great season, but on the night they clinched their appearance in the CCIW tournament, they happened to lose.  That's all. 

Thanks, Pete. That's exactly what I meant -- nothing more and nothing less.

Interesting morning on CCIW Chat. Who would've thought that by invoking the name "Cody Hilton", of all people, I'd inadvertently be pulling the pin on a grenade?

Maybe we should add "Cody Hilton" to "politics" and "religion" on the list of topics not to be broached on the board. 

[Gregory Sager]

Greg, let me try this one.  AndOne and CardinalPride, my understanding of the usage of "backed in" is that it is typically used when a team makes the playoffs or tournament on a night where it lost the game it played.  It is not a comment or a slam on NCC's season.  They've had a great season, but on the night they clinched their appearance in the CCIW tournament, they happened to lose.  That's all. 

Thanks, Pete. That's exactly what I meant -- nothing more and nothing less.

Interesting morning on CCIW Chat. Who would've thought that by invoking the name "Cody Hilton", of all people, I'd inadvertently be pulling the pin on a grenade?

Maybe we should add "Cody Hilton" to "politics" and "religion" on the list of topics not to be broached on the board. 

You'd think it'd be his older sister Paris who would be the taboo CCIW Chat topic.

[79jaybird]

CardinalAlum will be proud as I am (at the moment) one of the biggest Cardinals' fans around.  Course this will end at about 10:00pm on Saturday. 

[AndOne]

Pete,
My contention was with your  following statement "Fifteen points, many of which were from the free throw line resulting from fouls that were not Hilton's, is a sub-par game for Raymond."   This was simply not true since 6 of the 12 free throws were directly attributed to fouls by Hilton.  (check the play by play)
By the way Wiele didn't grab someone at half-court or when they had the ball.  Occasion touches/checks are normal but we're talking in the process of stretching the other guys jersey so it distorts the numbers.
thats the sort of thing to which I was referring.

If 6 of the 12 were a result of Hilton's fouls, then the other 6 were not.  I think 3 fouls on somebody who's not even a regular starter but is now guarding  a D3 All-American is an impressive performance.  If you're nit-picking that 6 of 12 does not constitute "many" and that I should have said "half" then I'll give you that, although it doesn't seem worth debating.  No need to check the play by play.  I watched it.

I didn't say anything about Wiele "grabbing someone at half-court or when they had the ball", but  I wasn't aware that holding fouls only applied if the player being grabbed happened to be holding the ball.  I know touches and checks, and what Wiele was doing under the basket did not qualify as "touches and checks".  

I was saying that 6 of 12 is "many".  Just trying to hold you to your words.  You made it sound like Hilton had little to do with Raymond going to the line.    I watched it too and used it to verify what I thought happened.  Don't let the facts get in the way.    Also Wiele was whistled for all his fouls.  Hilton fouled out after non-intentionally intentionally fouling Jahns in the last seconds.  So 8 of Wheaton's 17 made freethrows or 47% of them were results of Hilton fouls

Ok Pete,
I realize you're a closet wheaton fan but seriously I think Carthage's seatbacks are better than Wheaton's.   The only thing they are missing is drink holders in both venues.
You're also right no one beats Klaus' food.
+k to you for putting up with this

As I said, and what seems to have been confirmed by several posts, I doubt if Cody Hilton alone could have held down Raymond. I am NOT saying he is not athletic, Pete. I am saying he has always been more known as a shooter (I saw him play in HS several times os Glenbard East is in our local area) and a "physical" (read tough) player rather than one overly blessed with great speed.

[petemcb]

Greg, let me try this one.  AndOne and CardinalPride, my understanding of the usage of "backed in" is that it is typically used when a team makes the playoffs or tournament on a night where it lost the game it played.  It is not a comment or a slam on NCC's season.  They've had a great season, but on the night they clinched their appearance in the CCIW tournament, they happened to lose.  That's all. 

Thanks, Pete. That's exactly what I meant -- nothing more and nothing less.

Interesting morning on CCIW Chat. Who would've thought that by invoking the name "Cody Hilton", of all people, I'd inadvertently be pulling the pin on a grenade?

Maybe we should add "Cody Hilton" to "politics" and "religion" on the list of topics not to be broached on the board. 

You'd think it'd be his older sister Paris who would be the taboo CCIW Chat topic.

Maybe that's the Hilton they were thinking of who had committed too many clutch and grab type fouls......

[voxelmhurst]

Is it my imagination or are the acoustics in the TARC really poor?  I was sitting next to Wheels81 and we both thought the place sounded lifeless. Only when they played music over the PA was there any energy in the place(subwoofers were cranked).  I'll have to talk to some Wheaton players to get their feelings on the noise level.  While the place is beautiful, I'm not sure how much of a home court advantage it is since it's seemingly as quiet as the library.

You might have indirectly answered your own question.  The acoustics seemed fine to me.  As you pointed out, when the music was playing there was plenty of energy in the place.  Where I was sitting, the stands were literally vibrating.  What was "lifeless" and "quiet as a library" was the student section opposite the benches.  The requisite wacky student section that locates itself at one end of the floor in most gyms was there and vocal for Carthage, but the larger group of students across from the teams didn't really get visibly involved in the game until the last couple of minutes.  They should take a cue from their red-blazered President.......

I forgot to give these fans props after the first Elmhurst/Carthage game.  I think they call themselves the "North Army Ultras" and model themselves after the Chicago Fire fans.   It was same scenario in that game too.  The students behind the basket are going nuts for the ENTIRE game, and the ones on the sideline were looking too cool to even be there.

[AndOne]

Ok. the gloves are off and the game is on.

Let me first say that I expect a great game vs NCC on Saturday night from a well coached, disciplined team that has played well together this year. I think it will be close and NCC has had Wheaton's number the last few years so I don't expect anything other than a great performance from the Cardinals.

That said, I have to say I am really tired of the abused stepchild drum that AndOne is beating repeatedly. The ONES WHO VOTED are the coaches and personally they weren't that far off. They voted the Cardinal 6th and it looks like they are on their way to 3rd or 4th. WHO CARES? you keep touting your win against Wheaton when EVERYONE knows they weren't close to full strength. NCC played great and was definitely the better team that night but don't use that game as a measuring stick of you season because no one else does. Use THIS game!! Wheaton is at full strength. Run your mouth if you win Saturday (an NCC win is a distinct possibility--AO running his mouth is a given) but please stop insulting everyones intelligence with your "win against #7".

I pause here to say this is not a post against NCC because I see a win saturday as a distinct possibility. I am just tired of AndOne's Lou Holtz style posts. NCC is currently 2-3 against the other likely teams in the conference tournament  and 0-2 in THEIR gyms. This Saturday would be a signature win and if they do it the "old fashioned way" they will get all the kudos they deserve. Up to now NCC has been a good team and has won some games no one thought they would. They have also lost some games they absolutely should not have lost if they want to be a top team (home against IWU, @millikin).

Good luck to the Cardinals Saturday. Bring your A game, leave it all on the floor. You are playing a great team with all their guns in top form. No excuses, and may the best team win!

I feel better now. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.........

USee---

Its very easy to be the front runner and continually either put down or grudgingly give left handed compliments to a lower ranked opponent, especially when you have several other fellow supporters you know will back you up at the slightest criticism of your team. The fact is North Central has exceeded everyone's expectations except perhaps their own this season. And yes, I'm going to praise their efforts/results because if I don't nobody else will. I'm sorry I may not do it in a style you approve of.

As to your comment "EVERYONE knows they weren't close to full strength," it sure sounds like you're making excuses for Wheaton's loss. If one of the NC players had been unable to play and I or anyone else mentioned it, I can only imagine how loud you would be howling. The fact is Raymond played half the game and scored 13 points. If he had played the entire game and scored 26, North Central would have still won.

Lastly, speaking of someone "running his mouth," I imagine its about time for another of your sermons. Enlighten us your Lordship!

[Thunder Dutch]

I was at the Carthage game...

Whatever critique may be offered on their fans and acoustics, they were still much better than Elmhurst's fans, when Wheaton played them there.

I didn't think Wheaton played all that well. True, they did win, but it was too close, and their oft-vaunted defense allowed 55% from the field, and 10/19 from three. I think part of their problem was Carthage played pretty differently than most teams they'd played this year. Not just with a collapsing zone on D, but also their offense - completely centered around one player, surrounded by three shooters for double-teams. True, they did play earlier, but that didn't work out too well for Wheaton that time either.

was kent guarding steve because panner was slowed because of his rolled ankle at IWU?

[AndOne]

Ok. the gloves are off and the game is on.

Let me first say that I expect a great game vs NCC on Saturday night from a well coached, disciplined team that has played well together this year. I think it will be close and NCC has had Wheaton's number the last few years so I don't expect anything other than a great performance from the Cardinals.

That said, I have to say I am really tired of the abused stepchild drum that AndOne is beating repeatedly. The ONES WHO VOTED are the coaches and personally they weren't that far off. They voted the Cardinal 6th and it looks like they are on their way to 3rd or 4th. WHO CARES? you keep touting your win against Wheaton when EVERYONE knows they weren't close to full strength. NCC played great and was definitely the better team that night but don't use that game as a measuring stick of you season because no one else does. Use THIS game!! Wheaton is at full strength. Run your mouth if you win Saturday (an NCC win is a distinct possibility--AO running his mouth is a given) but please stop insulting everyones intelligence with your "win against #7".

I pause here to say this is not a post against NCC because I see a win saturday as a distinct possibility. I am just tired of AndOne's Lou Holtz style posts. NCC is currently 2-3 against the other likely teams in the conference tournament  and 0-2 in THEIR gyms. This Saturday would be a signature win and if you do it the "old fashioned way" you will get all the kudos you deserve. Up to now NCC has been a good team and has won some games no one thought they would. They have also lost some games they absolutely should not have lost if they want to be a top team (home against IWU, @millikin).

Good luck to the Cardinals Saturday. Bring your A game, leave it all on the floor. You are playing a great team with all their guns in top form. No excuses, leave it all on the floor and may the best team win!

I feel better now. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.........

Thanks for saying what a few of us have been thinking.

74---

Rather than just jumping on the bandwagon, at least I have the balls to voice and support my opinion despite the criticism I'll likely receive.
As far as your blurb "Thanks for saying what a few of us have been thinking." I'll bet its the few others who do what passes for "thinking." An exercise you're obviously incapable of.   

[Naperick]

I made it to Merner fieldhouse for the 2nd half last night.  Ryan Burks played with more confidence and had a great shooting night.  He was the difference but Childs also played well for the 'Jays.  It was definitely not a good night for Ruch.   Rogers and Drennan were great as usual but Barringer and Raridon did not produce much for the Cardinals.

I thought the officiating was bad both ways last night.  I also thought both teams had strange substitution patterns.  North Central seemed to be a step slow and just looked a bit off last night.

Those are just my opinions.

Best of luck to both schools in their next games.