MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Titan Q]

I was surprised and thought it was a poor idea to put someone on the line in a tie game.

I thought that it was an astute move by Panner. Spencer Gay was 2-6 from the line on the season when he toed the stripe for those two huge FTs.

If he fouled on purpose, I think it was an extremely questionable decision.  I'm going to make Wash U execute and make a shot, and hope to get it to overtime.  I don't think in a tie game with 25 seconds left you can give the opponent a chance to take the lead at the FT line.

Also, it happened so fast, I honestly don't think Panner really had the time to think about who he was fouling, and what that player's FT % on the season was.  It was just a quick reaction type play it seemed.

[WUPHF]

Did Ben Panner intentionally foul Gay after the missed shot with 25 seconds left (with the game tied)?  I was watching the video and not there live, but it looked to me like he tried to foul.  Or was he just trying to steal the ball?

Panner clearly fouled Gay after the missed shot, but that would have been hard to see on the video.

It was obvious on video he fouled him...but was he trying to?  (It seemed to me like he was...and I couldn't believe it.)

I did not watch the video, but I would have thought that if you could have seen it so obviously then I think you would know that it was on purpose.  

[Titan Q]

Did Ben Panner intentionally foul Gay after the missed shot with 25 seconds left (with the game tied)?  I was watching the video and not there live, but it looked to me like he tried to foul.  Or was he just trying to steal the ball?

Panner clearly fouled Gay after the missed shot, but that would have been hard to see on the video.

It was obvious on video he fouled him...but was he trying to?  (It seemed to me like he was...and I couldn't believe it.)

I did not watch the video, but I would have thought that if you could have seen it so obviously then I think you would know that it was on purpose.  

How would I know if he was trying to foul, or just trying to make a quick swipe at the ball to steal it?  (On the video, you can't hear the bench, or other players, yelling "foul!" like you can at the game.)

[Gregory Sager]

I agree with this analysis more than any of the other posts except for point three.  I was surprised how much physical strength Wheaton possessed tonight (backing our big guys up for example).  And, live, in person, you could see that the ball was a hot potato tonight.  A lot of players on both sides struggled to hold on to it.

Granted, that's an easier thing to gauge when you're in the gym rather than watching it from a distant single-camera feed.

Speaking of being in the gym rather than watching the game on the computer, tonight I was going to go to River Forest to watch NPU's opponent this weekend, Trine, take on host Dominican. The weather kept me home. Sure enough, the game went into triple overtime, with Trine winning just moments ago, 94-92. Here's the end of the third overtime via LiveStats:

       REBOUND (DEF) by Scott Rogers
00:00   DU   MISSED LAYUP by Turley, Jovan
00:04   DU   TIMEOUT TEAM
       ASSIST by Ian Jackson
00:04   Trine   GOOD! LAYUP by Scott Rogers   Trine 94 - DU 92   (Trine by 2)
       ASSIST by Patterson, Xavier
00:12   DU   GOOD! 3 PTR by Blackowicz, Kevin   DU 92 - Trine 92   Tied
00:18   Trine   GOOD! LAYUP by Deon Thompson   Trine 92 - DU 89   (Trine by 3)
       REBOUND (OFF) by (TEAM)
00:22   DU   BLOCK by Patterson, Xavier
00:22   Trine   MISSED LAYUP by Deon Thompson
00:46   Trine   TIMEOUT TEAM
       REBOUND (DEF) by Glenn Alfieri
00:55   DU   MISSED 3 PTR by Patterson, Xavier
       REBOUND (DEF) by Mandic, Milos
01:26   Trine   MISSED FT SHOT by Ian Jackson
01:26   Trine   GOOD! FT SHOT by Ian Jackson   Trine 90 - DU 89   (Trine by 1)

I'm kicking myself for staying home instead of going to see this one. Watching it on streaming video (I had this one on at the same time that I had Wheaton @ Wash U on) is not the same thing as seeing it live, folks.

[Gregory Sager]

I was surprised and thought it was a poor idea to put someone on the line in a tie game.

I thought that it was an astute move by Panner. Spencer Gay was 2-6 from the line on the season when he toed the stripe for those two huge FTs.

If he fouled on purpose, I think it was an extremely questionable decision.  I'm going to make Wash U execute and make a shot, and hope to get it to overtime.  I don't think in a tie game with 25 seconds left you can give the opponent a chance to take the lead at the FT line.

Also, it happened so fast, I honestly don't think Panner really had the time to think about who he was fouling, and what that player's FT % on the season was.  It was just a quick reaction type play it seemed.

I'll bet anything that the Wheaton coaching staff alerted the players at one of the timeouts that Gay was the guy to foul if you had to.

A 2-6 -- on the season, 2-6 -- FT shooter in a one-and-one situation, with the chance to play for the last shot after that? I like those odds.

[John Gleich]

I was surprised and thought it was a poor idea to put someone on the line in a tie game.

I thought that it was an astute move by Panner. Spencer Gay was 2-6 from the line on the season when he toed the stripe for that one-and-one.

That's true... but Gay had played a heckuva game up to that point.  He had the hot hand (even though I think all his points were layups and that dunk).

[Gregory Sager]

I was surprised and thought it was a poor idea to put someone on the line in a tie game.

I thought that it was an astute move by Panner. Spencer Gay was 2-6 from the line on the season when he toed the stripe for that one-and-one.

That's true... but Gay had played a heckuva game up to that point.  He had the hot hand (even though I think all his points were layups and that dunk).

Yeah, but does that hot hand transfer to the FT line in a situation in which you have one chance to knock down a FT that you absolutely have to make? I don't know, I'm just asking.

[Gregory Sager]

Gonzaga 79
Augie 40

[WUPHF]

I was surprised and thought it was a poor idea to put someone on the line in a tie game.

I thought that it was an astute move by Panner. Spencer Gay was 2-6 from the line on the season when he toed the stripe for that one-and-one.

That's true... but Gay had played a heckuva game up to that point.  He had the hot hand (even though I think all his points were layups and that dunk).

I think Spencer Gay was an unknown offensive commodity, for the most part, until tonight.  He had two very good defensive games last weekend, but played very little last year.

He was 2-2 from the line, having scored after getting fouled on a layup.

Gay has an interesting approach to the free throw.  He seems to close his eyes for a few seconds before the shot.  Focuses on the ground with minimal dribbling.  He did not look like a player with the game on his shoulders.

And, he has a very pretty shot.

[John Gleich]

I was surprised and thought it was a poor idea to put someone on the line in a tie game.

I thought that it was an astute move by Panner. Spencer Gay was 2-6 from the line on the season when he toed the stripe for that one-and-one.

That's true... but Gay had played a heckuva game up to that point.  He had the hot hand (even though I think all his points were layups and that dunk).

Yeah, but does that hot hand transfer to the FT line in a situation in which you have one chance to knock down a FT that you absolutely have to make? I don't know, I'm just asking.

Ya know, I think that's the kind of question that if you ask 15 coaches, you'll get 15 different opinions. 

The bottom line is that free throws are not a physical exercise (unless we're talking about 2nd graders).  FT's are mental.  And I think this is the carryover from having a hot hand NOT being the guy you want on the line. 

Or maybe I'm just coach #16 with his own different opinion...

[CCIWFAN3]

Panner thought Wheaton was down by 2 and not tied.

[CCIWFAN3]

Could have happened to anyone. Sometimes players just get caught up in the game, especially when the lead keeps changing.  I think they'd rather take the loss now and learn from it and play WashU later. 

[titanhammer]

To no one's surprise, Augie is getting destroyed by Gonzaga - 40-14 at the half.  Still, they are actually looking pretty good.  I think intimidation may be a factor, as they have missed a bunch of shots that were NOT due to Gonzaga's defense, but they have also held down Gonzaga's scoring pretty well.

Much of their scoring problems obviously are due to Gonzaga, but, assuming they would shoot better on their open shots, I don't think there are very many d3 teams that would be leading them right now.  Their positioning, ball-distribution and defense have been excellent, given what they are up against.

Given the mismatch it is hard to tell, but I think they are a legitimate top 25 team.  The game against WashU should be a better indicator.

It is hard to take much from this game.  It is just such a talent mismatch, and Augie is having to try to play a little different style just to survive, that it's tough to get a real feel for Augie (good or bad).

I agree that there is not much to take from this game.  However, from watching, I think there were some points for Gonzaga in intimidation factor.  I was frustrated during the first half, mostly, when AC would just pass it around the perimiter and not even look for a shot.  That, in and of itself, took away from AC showing the talent that it does have.

[hopefan]

I agree with CCIWFAN3  -  Panner's reaction  after the foul and looking at the scoreboard was one of surprise and dismay, as was the reaction on the bench   -  my thought at that second was that he incorrectly thought they were losing rather than tied....

Wheaton's defense was just incredible - I thought McKendree took Wash U out of their offense in the 2nd half last week - Wheaton did it virtually the whole game - Wallis was pressured everywhere, Thompson and Knepper had few ouside looks - but if you pressure the perimeter, there's no one to help inside, which is how Gay got all the easy hoops....

[Titan Q]

Panner thought Wheaton was down by 2 and not tied.

That makes more sense.  There is no way, in a tied game, you intentionally put the other team at the FT line with 25 seconds to play...unless Shaq, or someone like that, is the shooter.