MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[True Basketball Fan]

If it was to be true, then you would all of a sudden be Bill Harris's best friend.

Dansand is absolutely correct, great programs tend to scrap together a decent season or better in times of peril.  Depending on the circumstances, decent could be 11 or 12 wins or 17 or 18 (like in Augie's case last year).  I don't see Wheaton pulling in a 2-12 record in conference.  With North Park and Millikin still fluttering around in the CCIW cellar, Wheaton will at worst finish ahead of them.

[Gregory Sager]

Luke Trenz has transferred to the University of Cincinnati. Scratch him from this year's Wheaton team.

According to my source at Wheaton, Luke Bennett has quit the program. Scratch him from this year's Wheaton team.

Raymond, you already know about.

Wheaton will possibly get the services of David McAlpine, a 6'3 guard from Rochester, MN that they recruited three years ago but has yet to play for the Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance. Thing is, his back's been pretty messed up, so he's iffy. If he does suit up and play, my source tells me that he's a pretty good player. He'd have two years of eligibility remaining.

My source also told me that the word he's received on Wheaton's four freshman recruits is that they are all well below Raymond's level in terms of immediate impact. It looks like a rough year ahead for Bill Harris & Co.

What does it do to the situation if I explain that God told me that Raymond should play?

What an insensitive statement. If that's your idea of a joke, I'm not laughing.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Greg,

Surely Trenz didn't transfer for bball reasons, did he (I can't see a part-time player from Wheaton becoming an ANY-time player at Cincy)?!

Wow, if in addition to the graduates, Wheaton loses Raymond, Bennett and Trenz, they ARE in trouble.  But I'll never bet TOTALLY against a Bill Harris team - if all of the above is true, they're bottom half, but I just can't see them 8th!

[If all this is true, I may have to drop my syllogism out of sympathy!  ]

[Gregory Sager]

As for North Park, I'm pretty sure that TBF's prediction of another year in the CCIW cellar for the Vikings is going to be a fairly common one in here. I'm sure that Paul Brenegan and his team and coaching staff are hoping that it's a common sentiment among their CCIW opponents as well.

It's too early for me to get a read on the team, as I've only seen one open gym thus far. And open gyms are such that even if you see ten of them, you certainly aren't going to see everything that's relevant to a team's potential performance in game situations (and you'll see plenty of things that're irrelevant). I do know that Brenegan, Schafer, and Schoof hit the recruiting trail as hard as any coaching staff I've ever seen, right up to the last minute. It paid off in terms of numbers: NPU will enter fall practice with something like 25 guys in uniform, after a season in which they graduated several players from a roster that was already so thin that the Vikes didn't field a JV squad in 2004-05.

Quality? Well, the coaching staff did lose out on most of the prospects that they were really high on, so I approached the new school year with a certain amount of skepticism. But they seem to have compensated with what looks like a really solid group of transfers, at least by first impression. Jason Gordon, whom I have talked about several times before in here, should be an immediate impact player in the CCIW. The coaches are really high on three transfer guards: junior Uriah Rice and sophomores Eric Allen (Drew Carstens' former teammate at Downers Grove North) and Ed Whitaker. All three have good size, and they'll all play prominent roles for NPU right away.

The four freshmen big men are raw and certainly have lots of holes in their respective games at this point (as is usually the case among big men at this level), but unlike the Park's big men of the past few seasons, they each have significant potential. In those previous years, Jeremy Sargent, Glenn Woodside, Themis Chalkias, and Mike Ventura would've each been a candidate to be thrown into the rotation right away, given that NPU centers of late have either been undersized, physically stiff, unacceptable in terms of skills development, or some combination of the three. As it is, NPU now has the luxury of developing at least two of them, and possibly three of them, on the JV level this year.

One will probably be needed to start at center on the varsity, however; my early guess is that it will be Sargent. He's undeveloped at the offensive end (a consequence of playing in a Thornwood program loaded with chuckers who expected him only to rebound their misses and set screens for them), but he's already CCIW-caliber at the defensive end. I saw him hold Morgan Park's 6'7, 235 center Jimmie Covington, a D1 signee who averaged over 14 ppg, to five points in a high school game last season. NPU should get plenty of offense elsewhere, including from Brett Mathisen in the post, to negate the need for a scoring center. Rebounding and defense are what Brenegan's looking for there. Woodside has great potential, but needs to fill out a little more. Chalkius has lost a lot of weight since he came to NPU last year, but still needs to improve his quickness and stamina. Ventura's a little bit of a mystery. And, as I said, they all have several areas where they need to develop, as do most 18- or 19-year-old big men.

In terms of returnees, Jay Alexander should be a much-improved soph, although I wish he could put on some more weight. Eric Samuelson should be in the mix again, and if Mike Peterson can improve his defense he might see some playing time as well. Mike Haehn will probably reprise his role as backup center, provided he survives another season on the gridiron as the NPU QB. Steve Reynolds will compete with soph transfer Kevin Buckert for the backup PG spot. And Mathisen will be The Man on this team again, along with Gordon.

It'll be a bigger, physically stronger, less intimidated, and deeper team than NPU has fielded for the past few years. Better? They couldn't be any worse than last year. But just how much they'll improve upon the disastrous 2004-05 campaign remains to be seen.

[Gregory Sager]

Chuck, my source told me that Trenz has no intention to try out as a walk-on for the Bearcats. He's a native of the 'nati, so he is probably going to the U. there just to be close to home.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Greg,

That sounds reasonable about Trenz - I didn't know he was from Cincy.

But you didn't directly address the BIG question we all want to know the answer to: WILL NPU finish ahead of Wheaton this year? 

Yeah, I know, I'm the one who said we'd better wait 'til at least the start of practices, but that is SO far away - any current preictions?!

[Gregory Sager]

Predictions aren't my style, Chuck. I never make them with regard to the CCIW standings (although I do enjoy poking fun at how poorly the coaches do at them every year  ). That's because I tend to support the more-knowledge, less-opinions approach to posting as much as possible. I do my utmost to see as much D3 basketball in November and December as I can so that I can comment from an informed position, and even then I frequently get surprised by what I see in January and February.

Or it could be because I seem to be incapable of taking the advice of others to just lighten up and have fun with prognosticating. I know my limitations.   

Either way, the idea of forecasting the season of a North Park team made up mostly of faces I have yet to recognize when I pass them on the sidewalk near campus does not sit well with me. I will say that I have a pretty strong suspicion that Wheaton is going to wind up somewhere south of their 20-6, 10-4 finish from last season, but that probably does nothing more than make me a contender for that Most Obvious Understatement award you're trying to hand to April over in the SCIAC room.

[Gregory Sager]

Oh, and just to head off at the pass anyone looking to indulge in the pleasure of picking nits with CCIW Chat's most notorious nitpicker, I'm well aware that I spelled Jeremiah Sargent's and Glen Woodside's names wrong. And it serves me right for patting myself on the back for spelling Themis Chalkias's name correctly that I now see that I spelled it wrong the second time. 

[emeritusprof]

Wow!  Certainly glad that's cleared up.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I'd just like to point out that Ypsi quoted several lines from Spinoza in another room.  As the CCIW Chat is universally regarded as the highbrow culture center of the d3hoops universe, I can only wonder if he is trying out material elsewhere for future use here.

I'm not going to be prognosticating here any time soon.  Most of you have far more intimate knowledge of the competition than I.  Any conjecture from me would only be reinforcing the common perceptions.

[True Basketball Fan]

In a nice and LONG way, Greg is saying that NPU will probably will finish below Wheaton in the conference standings.  That's what I depicted from Greg's novel, which is the closest to a prediction as you'll find from him.

[Gregory Sager]

I'm saying nothing of the sort, TBF. I'm puzzled as to how you drew that conclusion from what I wrote.

[emeritusprof]

Yet, you're never puzzled as to what someone else intended or meant.

You labelled my comment as "insensitive" when all I did was suggest a message from God.  Why should one person's similar claim be valid, and mine invalid -- altho I do recognize your position as validator?

If a young man chooses to no longer play ball, that's his decision.  I'm quite sure God has much more important concerns than to talk with college athletes about whether they should continue playing a game.  If some guy wants to quit--so be it.  Quit and offer no reason, as it's not the business of anyone else, anyway.

Even my Covenant preacher uncles made no claim to ever have personally conversed with God, much less make the claim some action they took was by God's personal direction.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Even my Covenant preacher uncles made no claim to ever have personally conversed with God, much less make the claim some action they took was by God's personal direction.

I find that very hard to believe, as every preacher or pastor I know will tell you they are what they are because of a call from God.   If the young man from Wheaton has such a close relationship with his God that he is being lead down a different path, which does not include basketball, then so be it.  Your comment was (as Greg told you) extremely insensitive.  Why not just appologize for offending and move on.

[Gregory Sager]

Yet, you're never puzzled as to what someone else intended or meant.

This is an odd ad hominem flung in my direction, since your post subsequently confirmed with crystal clarity that I had indeed grasped the meaning of your Kent Raymond gibe.

You labelled my comment as "insensitive" when all I did was suggest a message from God.  Why should one person's similar claim be valid, and mine invalid

Yeah, right. As if further insulting Raymond by equating his decision with your smug wisecracking is going to win you the moral high ground here.

-- altho I do recognize your position as validator?

Not that you're ever going to take my advice, but over the years I've found that, as a general rhetorical rule, inserting snarky comments into what is ostensibly a defense of one's ethics and/or a discussion of a theological topic as deep as the relationship between God and man can be pretty counterproductive. Think about it.

If a young man chooses to no longer play ball, that's his decision.  I'm quite sure God has much more important concerns than to talk with college athletes about whether they should continue playing a game.  If some guy wants to quit--so be it.  Quit and offer no reason, as it's not the business of anyone else, anyway

Oh, you're quite sure about that, are you? Sounds to me as though you're the one pulling rank in terms of having a deeper understanding of the Almighty, not Kent Raymond. Sorry if I don't sign off on your pronunciamento about what God is or isn't concerned with, but in light of multiple biblical passages concerning God's desire for an intimate relationship with human beings -- starting with his creation of us in his image, the explicit declaration of Christ that those who follow him are God's children, his intimation in the passage about sparrows and lilies of the field that God is concerned with our welfare on every level, and the numerous NT passages that refer to prayer as the basis for an active and intimate relationship between God and believer -- I have to demur.

Personally, I try to refrain from speaking on behalf of the Deity. If you're "quite sure" that you have the specifics of what he does or doesn't prefer with regard to Kent Raymond, or anyone or anything else, don't let me stop you from sharing it with the world. Just remember that prophets are held to pretty strict standards -- and getting your prophetic word in line with the Scriptures might be a good first order of business.

And, as an aside, if Raymond's decision to quit is "not the business of anyone else, anyway", then why did you throw that snide remark at him in the first place? Don't you fall into the category of "anyone else"?

Even my Covenant preacher uncles made no claim to ever have personally conversed with God, much less make the claim some action they took was by God's personal direction.

It's hard not to chuckle at you going all anecdotal on us, Clayton, in light of how bent out of shape you got over my citing the observations shared by my two former Chippewa co-workers in a previous CCIW Chat conversation. But that's neither here nor there.

FDF's comment about the call to ministry coming from God is spot-on, in my opinion. Aside from that, though, I'll say this about Covenant preachers: I've been a Covie for almost my entire life, and many of my closest friends are in the Covenant ministry. And I can say with absolute certainty that none of them have ever claimed to have spoken ex cathedra. There's a reason why the Covenant doesn't have a pope, and it has nothing to do with a general dislike of robes and funny hats among Covies. But there's a world of difference between claiming to be God's infallible mouthpiece for the purposes of enlightening and instructing everyone else, and claiming to understand God's leading in your own (and no one else's) life.

Besides, I see this as a matter of simple decency. I don't know Kent Raymond, nor do I know the particulars of his faith or the whole story behind his decision to forego basketball. But I respect his sense of conviction, whether I agree with his decision (or, indeed, his grounds for it) or not. And refraining from ridiculing someone else's faith is a matter of simple politeness.