MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Dean and Doctor]

My first post although a constant reader and lurker on this site, truly" the most definitive site for information on NCAA Division III basketball".

Unfortunately what I have seen over the years are groups of individuals who have flaunted their knowledge and familiarity with basketball as proof of the quality and validity of their statements.  I too would be tempted to do the same to lend greater reliability to that which I have to say.

As for the IWU/Elmhurst game, let the game stand for what it was:  an excellently played game between two solid teams with depth of role-players, excellent scouting reports, coaches making decisions that needed to be made when they were made, and players doing everything they could do to win the game for their Alma Mater.

There were often times in which I felt that the refs was costing us the game.  But in hindsight, my loyalties over-ran my better judgment.  In sinuating that one player did this or did that (and it wasn't called as it should have been) reeks of sour grapes even though you would like to call it some other fruit!

As one in attendance at the game, I complained bitterly because the refs were not calling "holding on Keenan A" for grabbing jerseys and literslly holding players as they broke through a screen, positioned themselves for a rebound, etc.  I was therefopre quite surprised to see that the issue was raised herein in reverse!

I truly thought Martin's check on an IWU  layup was quite a bit over the edge.  But no more so than Freeman's body block on Martin which sent him into the first row of the beachers.  I took no offense when Trost and Scherer applauded their payer for their hustle.

When Dauksas gave a huge shove to clear E-hurst and IWU players out of the way to make way for a Titan rebound, resulting in a call by the official of "over the back" on Elmhurst's Ruch's, I felt like throwing my bad call brick!  Then on the trip down to the other end, I saw the same action by Eihlenfelt resulting in a call against Jones.

As irritated as I was at the officiating, as much as I found a distate for losing especially to IWU, and as much as I hated the mere fact of losing!, I got the only thing that I could have wished for...consistency, or the consistency of inconsistency on the part of the officials, which did not determine the outcome of the game.

To say anything else, takes away from two excellent teams who had well deserving All-Americans who did what they needed to do which proved the validity of their honor.  (Even Amelianovich forced Elmhurst to formulate a game plan which placed significant consideration to negating his abillity, talent and impact in the game.

So, let's stop the sniping at the officials and the sniping at individuals which in some of these posts have tried to lessen the achievements of these young men last evening!  Failure to do so shall result in a tit-for-tat argument about this call, that call, this error or that error and whether or not the outcome would or would not have made the game's outcome different than it was.

Let us use our considerable amount of knowledge to analyze the game, the conference race, and conference talent rather than stooping to levels of petty arguments or statements which demean one of the better games played by two teams on the same court on the same night!

[veterancciwfan]

April: You will be happy to know that just for you, the CCWI conf. tourney has been rescheduled for Andover, MD in the the old Wash'ton Bullets arena. See you there.

[nochoresmartin11]

Why would you sit back in a zone when your down 11 pts IWU?  Regardless, I don't know how anybody could call martin's foul on freeman a dirty play or anything like that?  That was a hard foul yes, but he smashed the ball off the glass and yes he did make contact, but that's the game of basketball.  Trost was absoulutely furious about the foul administered by martin, sorry coach next time chris should probably let freeman dunk the ball and lead a rally for IWU.  If he took freeman out and didnt' go for the ball, then yes it would be dirty, but also anybody who has played the game and has a competitive bone in their body knows that when a guy is about to go up for a dunk, you as the defender want to go up and smash it off the glass and make sure they don't finish the dunk.  Great win by the Jays, and Brian Lee played tremendous ball.

[Gregory Sager]

Dear Mom - I honestly do not recall ANY IWU posters making that statement about Elmhurst.  We have a lot of respect for Elmhurst; and, remember your JV Coach is a Titan 

No, he's not, IWM. John Baines is a Bluejay. We went through all this several years ago when Dave Kunka was the assistant coach at North Central. Titan Q, who is Kunka's close friend, went to great lengths on CCIW Chat to make it clear that Kunka's loyalty was to his boss, his players, and his employer, not to his alma mater. The same holds true if and when Gordon's Mike Schauer or Eastern's Matt Nadelhoffer faces Wheaton, and I think we all have an inkling of the fact that the same holds true whenever Carthage's Bosko Djurickovic faces NPU. 

By all accounts Baines is doing a great job in Elmhurst as Mark Scherer's assistant, and I think that all Titans fans can be proud of him. But nobody should ever cast his loyalties into doubt, even innocently and light-heartedly (and I realize that that's all you were doing). Maybe this shouldn't even need to be said ... but Bob said it before on Kunka's behalf, and it bears repeating again on Baines'.

[True Basketball Fan]

Was at the big game on Saturday........

Interesting sound bites on Coach Trost during the game, most of them not repeatable.  I was sitting several rows behind the scorers table during most of the game.  That guy uses the f word more frequently than just about anybody I've ever known.  He also likes to direct his attention to the other team's bench quite a bit.  It seems to me that he should be concerned with his bench and his players, especially since they've lost 2 games these past few weeks.  I like the IWU players, I think they play extremely hard and are very good competitors.  I've enjoyed watching them for several years now.  They seem to have their focus on the game for the most part.  It's a shame to see them get flustered, mainly because I think their leader (Trost) is causing it or making it worse.  I don't how other IWU fans feel about that, but it's awfully disturbing and embarrassing.

[True Basketball Fan]

IWM and GS,

I arrived at Elmhurst early to get a good seat and saw the last few minutes of the JV game, and John Baines was not coaching.  It was the other assistant, Troy Forbes.  Not too many people saw it, but I was shocked when the Elmhurst guard, Ryan Burks, made a 3 with 4 seconds left to win the game, and they had ONLY 4 PLAYERS OUT THERE!  That's probably why he got in the game in the 2nd half for a few minutes, the Elmhurst coaches thought he might still be hot.

[Gregory Sager]

Ryan Burks is the man. How many pts did he end up with in that game? My guess is alot. I never want to question the coaching staff at Elmhurst, they are a great group, but, I think I'd play Ryan Burks in the Varsity..

Where, Rodney? Elmhurst has three experienced, proven seniors who play the off-guard spot: Chris Ihlenfeldt, Evan Patchett, and David Gershenzon.

Methinks your homeboy Ryan Burks will get plenty of varsity playing time next season. In fact, I'd bet all the corn in Manito on it. 

[augiedad]

- "We have a lot of respect for Elmhurst; and, remember your JV Coach is a Titan " - iwumich

- "No, he's not, IWM. John Baines is a Bluejay." -Gregory Sager


Gregory, do you feel the need to argue/debate everything said on the board?   I don think anyone else reading the board thinks iwumich. was suggesting that John Baines' loyalty was anywhere but with Elmhurst.  He/she is just referring to the fact that Baines play at/graduated from IWU.

Every now and then, just let something go - it's get annoying to read when someone feels the need to debate every statement made here!

[tjcummingsfan]

Oh come on augiedad, lighten up.  If you don't want to read people's arguments, don't!  It's pretty simple.


And Dean & Dr,

Again I say lighten up.  I think at least 85% of the officiating discussion that goes on here is more to get other's opinions on what people think they saw at a game.  I know that my judgement can be way off when I'm watching a North Park game, thinking that every call that doesn't go the Viking's way is a "terrible call."  Ones that I think were particulary questionable I bring up, to get Greg's, and any other poster who happened to be there's opinion on the call/foul/situation.  No one in this room is trying to take anything away from the heart and passion these kids play with.  But to ask people not to discuss the games on a discussion board is just ludicrous.

[clu]

True BB Fan

I wasn't going to bring this subject up, but since you have I'm going to add my 2 cents worth. I watched Mr. Trost both last year and this year and he does seem to direct his attention to the EC bench. The F word is used frequently and directed at the EC bench, both this year and last. I was really a little concerned for Mr. Trost, as he looked like a deer in the headlights.

[iwumichigander]

- "We have a lot of respect for Elmhurst; and, remember your JV Coach is a Titan " - iwumich

- "No, he's not, IWM. John Baines is a Bluejay." -Gregory Sager


Gregory, do you feel the need to argue/debate everything said on the board?   I don think anyone else reading the board thinks iwumich. was suggesting that John Baines' loyalty was anywhere but with Elmhurst.  He/she is just referring to the fact that Baines play at/graduated from IWU.

Every now and then, just let something go - it's get annoying to read when someone feels the need to debate every statement made here!

Thanks augiedad - you are correct!

[Jim Matson]

I haven't heard that phrase about corn and Manito in...gee, how long since that line got thrown on this board, Greg?

[ScotsFan]

Steve Moore from Wooster played at/graduated from Wittenberg.  Should we question his loyalties too?

[79jaybird]

John Baines is pro Elmhurst, that's his job and right now that's his team.  He will always have the memories and keep IWU in his heart, but you live for today and right now he's pro Elmhurst.
I thought the officials in the IWU/EC game were decent, not great but decent. They did miss many calls both ways, but I don't think the officials decided the outcome of the game. 

[iwumichigander]

Week 6 Poll Out
1 Wittenberg (15) 14-1 610 1
2 Wooster (3) 14-1 592 3
3 Albion (7) 13-1 590 4
4 Hope  14-1 531 2
5 Lawrence  12-0 506 6
6 Illinois Wesleyan  12-2 478 5
7 Puget Sound  12-2 467 7
8 York (Pa.)  13-1 465 9
9 Augustana  14-1 453 10
13 North Central  12-1 289 12

Elmhurst received 29 votes far short of #25 Ohio Northern 11 - 3 64 votes

Another week with 3 CCIW teams in the Top 25!  Congratulations to IWU, Augustana and North Central.. And, congratulations to Wheaton Women again at #8 in this week's poll.