MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[thegreatest]

first i want to start by saying that Augie and NCC are playing really well right now. they are the top two teams in the CCIW and they've been showing everybody why time after time. second, IWU has really been slumping lately. i'm not sure what it is but with the amount of talent on that team i hope they dont fall from the top one or two in the league by the end of the season.

on another note...i have read the post and checked the box scores and i'm coming to the following conclusions about carthage and their situation this season:

1.  Bosko is definitely not the reason why they are losing games. if you ever go to the games, read the play by play, or ever listen to their games it is obvious that the players make the mistakes on the court and its not because of how bosko coaches. so driving him out wont solve anything.

2.  Kyle Jeffery is definitely the best player in uniform for the red men and he is leading the league in scoring i believe. but the red men have no chance with him scoring all their points. someone else is going to have to put the basketball in the hoop for them to win. their free throw percentage might be the lowest in the league and they seem to get out rebounded more times than not. --hint-- that might be why they keep losing.

3.  no matter how much people dont like it or want to admit it, and no matter how much people try to say carthage is fine and they're just not competing well.....its more than obvious that they really miss and need Trey Bowens and Mike Hart as well. any time you lose one of your leading rebounders (Hart was one of the leading rebounders at the time), your leading scorer and assist man (Bowens has been out for 5 games and he is still the second leading scorer and still leading the team in assists per game) its only going to do that team nothing but bad. i might also add that other than Hood, Bowens is still second on the team in free throw percentage with more than ten attempts and he still leads in minutes played. if Bowens is really coming back soon, they can really use him.

4.  with the fans that carthage have i dont see how anybody can win. especially when you dont back the head coach of the team. you cant be serious.

[Stat]

Yes, I remember all the talk about Rees.  It was not pleasant chat if you were close to the program.

The Carthage program simply has no chemistry on the team.  Some good individual players who cannot play together.

There is a question of "heart" as well.

Nevertheless, they have played the most difficult schedule YTD.

[Gregory Sager]

Yes, I remember all the talk about Rees.

It comes with the territory. Remember what it was like in this room when Scott Trost was struggling during his first season? And the same thing happened in this room vis-a-vis the Augie posters back when Steve Yount's tenure in Rock Island was winding down to an unhappy conclusion. Heck, if the Bluejays go on a losing streak, look for Steven Voss and some of the other Elmhurst-affiliated Mark Scherer detractors to re-emerge.

Most fans have incredibly short memories, which is why college basketball inevitably turns into a "what have you done for me lately?" festival on fan boards. The fact that Carthage people are bashing a coach who has a curriculum vitae in D3 basketball that's second to none is the ultimate proof of that.

[diehardfan]

CK, stop being dumb.  When you can find another coach who loses the guys Bosko lost before the start of the season, and give IWU, and Augie such a good run, let me know. 

Heh... well, technically, Wheaton lost their 1,2,3,4,5,7,8, and 9th top scorers from last year, and we sure gave Augie and IWU a run for their money. But don't worry, I totally agree.

I sent something like this as a part of a private message today, but it really belongs out here as well.

Earlier this year, it was, "Oh, Wheaton will be lucky to beat North Park because they lost so much." And then it was... "Wait, Harris should be able to make wine out of water," and then when it didn't look like he did, people were ready to bash Harris... Now, a few months later you're all praising him to the skies. What changed? Did Harris? Or did this team just mature and learn how to function better as a unit?

I'm not going to address the Carthage situation specifically, since I don't know what the cause of their "downfall" is... but I will make a few statements that I think everyone needs to keep in mind.

A team is a team, comprised of many parts, one of which is the coach. There is never even only one leader on a team... there's the assistant coaches, and the captains... and even those with out titles lead by example. There are many possible sources of "failure to lead."

People set seriously high bars for themselves by being successful and talented. (Bosco had more than done that at Carthage.) Then if one looks and see anything less than perfect, it's always... he sucks, which is totally unjust. Let's face it, everyone is going to be less than perfect all of the time. Nobody is perfect.

This same thing happened with the Augie football coach this year, in the Post Patterns CCIW board. Some of the fans were raging about how he hadn't done anything for Augie, and needed to resign. Any of you who even vaguely follow football know that Barnes already has a tremendous legacy as well.

The head coach is usually just the easiest one to pick on... but the fact that it is easy, doesn't make it right. Often it means that it is the furthest possible thing from being right.

You win as a team, you lose as a team, the failures and successes, even the ones that are theoretically individual... like POY, COY, those can't be done in a vacuum... they belong to the team too. Anyone who doesn't think that way has obviously never played competitive sports, or played them really, really badly.

I hope the Carthage team figures things out... if only so we can stop talking inflamatory nonsense, and get back to the incredibly interesting race that's going on right now in this conference.

[augie_superfan]

That was a nice article in the Sun Times, especially the part about Nick Michael.  I played against him his sophomore year in high school and he really was just another tall, and somewhat uncoordinated big man.  I also saw him play once his junior year.  Then I lost track of him and when I saw Elmhurst and him come to play at Augie, I was completely surprised.  Seeing him the other week at Augie was like seeing a totally different player.  He is a great big man now.  That kid must of totally worked his butt off over the past 4 or 5 years and it defintely shows.  He deserves some props for the hard work.

[advoice]

Have you not read what I have written, Sager.  I am not a Carthage fan. I am a CCIW fan. I did not call for Bosko's head in any of my posts.

My underlying message in the posts I have made is that Bosko needs to go back to being Bosko again and the college needs to remember why they had an enrollment increase in the last ten years.

[robertgoulet]

i dont know if anyone is watching the high school game on espn 2 between lawrence north (IN) and north central (IN).....but greg oden is a BEAST. wow.


also, #23 for north central is a top recruit of illinois. he's only a jr. he's a stud.

but oden..........WOW.

[Gregory Sager]

Have you not read what I have written, Sager.  I am not a Carthage fan. I am a CCIW fan. I did not call for Bosko's head in any of my posts.

I didn't say that you had. The first paragraph was directed at you for directing your previous comments at me when they shouldn't have been. The second paragraph -- the one that started, "To repeat: If the Carthage people ..." -- wasn't directed at you. It was directed at the Carthage posters who've bashed Bosko over the past 24 hours (Carthageking and Redmen1, although in the defense of the latter he doesn't seem nearly as committed to breaking out the tar and feathers as does the former), and I never said that that group included you.

[David Collinge]

Some of you know that I have been noodling around with the history of the D3hoops.com Top 25 poll, now in it's 101st week.  In that period (beginning with the 1999-2000 season), can you guess which D3 men's team has spent the most time ranked #1?

Those of you who guessed Carthage, take a bow. 

Carthage has been ranked #1 twenty-two times in 101 polls.  That's far and away the top of that chart (in second is UW-Stevens Point at 13 weeks.)  Carthage has been in the national top ten 38 times , which ranks 7th in the nation, and in the top 25 58 weeks--that's nearly three weeks out of every five.  Despite the fact that the Red Men are going through a down time, and haven't received any votes in the poll since Week 2 of last season (a stretch now numbering 21 polls), they still have received votes in more polls (71/101) than all but 14 teams in D3, including all of the CCIW except IWU. 

All under Bosko. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

I can summarize this whole Bosko nonsense in two words:  Joe Paterno.  Anyone notice who the d1 COY was this year?  (Hint, his nickname is JoPa.)  And at least THOSE zealots had the plausible rationale that at his age, maybe he really HAD lost it - I don't know Bosko's age, but I'm guessing he could be Paterno's son!

[Note to tjc: IWU finished 3rd in the nation in 2001; 1997 was their title year.]

[Gregory Sager]

I can summarize this whole Bosko nonsense in two words:  Joe Paterno.  Anyone notice who the d1 COY was this year?  (Hint, his nickname is JoPa.)  And at least THOSE zealots had the plausible rationale that at his age, maybe he really HAD lost it - I don't know Bosko's age, but I'm guessing he could be Paterno's son!

Bosko was in North Park's class of '73, so I think he's 53 years old. Perhaps 54.

[augiefan]

Oden looks like he's about 27 years old. He is clearly unstoppable at this level, and I think he might pull a Carmelo Anthony next year and lead OSU to a National title in his freshman year. A man among boys has never been more correct.

I wasn't impressed at all with the Illinois recruit in this mismatch. Other than getting stuffed by Oden, turning the ball over and missing shots, I saw little from Eric Gordon. I knew Oscar Robertson and Eric Gordon is no Oscar Robertson.

[augiefan]

I'm afraid it's a little early to say Augie's early season performance has been up there with NCC. NCC beat IWU on the road, while Augie has yet to play the two top teams in the conference (NCC and IWU) and has brutal schedule in the second half of the conference season.  Check back on the 26th of this month and we'll know if Augie is a contender or a pretender. At least they've beaten teams they have to beat so far, albeit in slightly ugly fashion.

[augiefan]

Actually Gordon looked pretty good in the second half of tonight's game, but many of his points came long after the game was decided. He is not the next Oscar Robertson, who possibly is Indiana's best all around player ever, although George McGinnis was a heckuva a high school player in the Hoosier state. Oden, of course, is a special case because of his size, but I'm basing my "best player" observations on skills not solely related to towering over the oppostion for dunks and rebounds.

[augiedad]

Q, a B-N friend of mine e-mailed this to me and asked if there was relation.  Father, right?


http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2006/01/15/sports/103812.txt

From Pages Past

1956: Illinois Wesleyan rallied in the final four minutes of play to defeat a salty-tongued Lewis College aggregation, 82-77. Bob Quillman, whose high-arching jump shots found the range in the closing minutes, tied the game at 75-75 and Dean Padgett's free throw boosted the Titans in front for good.