MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

It would sure be nice to see someone spell hangar correctly.

Speeling is not part of the Whaton curriculum.  Nort Park's nether.   

That would be "Weeton"

"Hanger" is correct it's what happens to Wheaton everytime they play there.
So when was NC a place of aviation?

Much like Augie's renowned medical school, a detailed discussion about which was held here prior to last season in conjunction with the enrollment of one of Augie's current roster members, NCC's Department of Aeronautical Engineering was established soon after completion of the "hangar" in 1931. The nickname "hangar" derived from the fact that part of the building was used to construct experimental aircraft frames upon which stress and metal fatigue tests were conducted. Early in the construction process, a major problem in the construction of the building was discovered in that there was no means of getting the completed airframes out of the building after they were finished. It was at that time a section of the west wall was knocked out and a huge garage door installed. After several years, a combination of NCC's desire to concentrate on liberal arts programs coupled with increased costs in maintaining the aeronautical engineering program, led NCC to sell the program to Lewis University in nearby Romeoville which, to this day, runs a well known aviation department. When the program was transferred to Lewis, the garage door opening was reduced to its present size.   

[AndOne]

If IWU wins, the order is:

1. North Central (by virtue of best record in last 7 conference games, but see below)
2. Augustana
3. IWU (by virtue of 1-1 split with North Central vs. Wheaton's 0-2)
4. Wheaton

If Augustana wins, the order is:
1. Augustana
2. North Central
3. Wheaton (by virtue of beating Carthage twice)
4. Carthage

Now, the CCIW.org lists the tiebreaking criteria (http://www.cciw.org/sports/2010/6/29/Gen._0629100226.aspx?id=616)

"Men's & Women's Basketball
Seeding will be determined by regular season finish. Ties are broken by the following:

1. Head-to-head competition.
2. Record against team(s) above the tie beginning with the highest ranked team.
3. Record vs. team or teams in 3 rd place. If still tied, go to the next place for determination, et cetera.
4. Road record against conference schools.
5. Record in their seven conference games.
6. The point spread of the tied teams' head-to head competition.
7. Coin toss"

And I am assuming that the 5th criteria means their last seven conference games, but it doesn't say so.

So, if true, NC is playing Wheaton no matter what.

bopol, while I certainly thought the exact same thing just a couple of hours ago, I believe the issue is that if IWU wins, the CCIW technically has a three-way tiebreaker on their hands, and not just a two-way tie to be split between IWU and Wheaton. 

Based on thunder38illini's information, it appears that the CCIW is planning to break the three-way tie first by awarding the #3 seed to the team with the best head-to-head record among the three, which we would be Wheaton's 3-1 over IWU's 2-2 and Carthage's 1-3.  After that, of course, IWU would take the tiebreaker over Carthage by virtue of IWU's 1-1 record vs. the third-place Thunder, in comparison to Carthage's 0-2.

Remember, even though Carthage can't qualify for the tournament if Wesleyan wins, they're still technically part of the tiebreaking process.

OK---just spoke with sources at North Central. Here is how things will shake out.

If Augie wins: (as above)
1. Augie
2. NCC
3. Wheaton
4. Carthage

But, if Wesleyan wins:
1. NCC (hosts tournament)
2. Augie
3. Wheaton
4. Wesleyan

Wheaton is locked into 3rd place in either case. Accordingly, they will play NCC only if Augie defeats Wesleyan and hosts the tourney. If IWU wins and NCC hosts, Wheaton will face Augie.

[AndOne]

Lots on the line tomorrow night at Wesleyan.
*Does preseason number 4 nationally ranked Wesleyan even make the conference tournament?
*After a tremendous season, and climbing to number 3 nationally, does Augie host or have to travel to Naperville having lost its last 2 games?

Intensity with a capital I for sure.
Strange as it may seem, Augie will have lots of Wisconsin fans tomorrow night while many in Naperville will be cheering for our "comrades" in white and green.

Anyone have plans to visit Bloomington tomorrow evening?

[thunder38]

jtsmith,

Good point.  So, I guess the question because do they calculate who emerges from the tiebreaker and then set the seeds (in which case, IWU would be 3 and Wheaton would be 4) or does Wheaton get the 3 seed from emerging from the tiebreaker first?

The other funny thing is when you look at it, you could be setting the 1-2 seeds based on how they did against the #3 team, but you don't know the 3 team until you set the 1-2 seeds because they use that tiebreaker.  In this case, it doesn't happen, but it could have easily if Augustana had lost to Wheaton instead of (in this possibility) losing to IWU.

Basically, someone needs to rewrite the tiebreaker rules for the CCIW.

Just wanted to clarify the tie-breaker situation.  This is obviously messy as there's a possibility of three teams finishing 9-5 in conference.  At this point it appears as if Wheaton is locked into the three-seed regardless of the outcome in Bloomington.  The following is the word from the CCIW notes this past week:

"If Illinois Wesleyan, Wheaton and Carthage finish in a three-way tie for third
place at 9-5, Wheaton would earn the No. 3 seed based on its 3-1 composite
record against Carthage and Illinois Wesleyan during the regular season. The next
step would be to determine which team gets the No. 4 seed, Illinois Wesleyan
or Carthage. The Titans and Red Men split their season series, and under this
scenario, both teams will have finished 1-1 against first place Augustana and
second place North Central. Illinois Wesleyan finished 1-1 against the next place
team, which is Wheaton, while Carthage was 0-2 against the Thunder. This would
give Illinois Wesleyan the fourth and final seed."

The tiebreaker actually isn't that complicated.  The CCIW laid it out pretty clearly in the weekly notes and I would have to believe that they would lay it out again if they choose to publish the notes ahead of Tuesday night's game.  AO's sources are well educated.  Wheaton is locked into the 3 seed.  Wesleyan wins and they're in putting the tournament at NCC.  Augie wins then they get to host.

[Gregory Sager]

You're probably the only one, then, as there's no big secret as to why Millikin is 1-22 and one loss away from finishing with the worst overall record in the 65-year history of the CCIW. It's a terrible team. Carthage must've absolutely stunk up the joint this afternoon. On Wednesday I told Bosko, Twan, and Cory, "You three plus Roehl and President Campbell could probably suit up and beat Millikin on Saturday." And none of them disagreed with me.

I would say from your post that you did not watch the game yesterday.  Yes, Millikin has had a very disappointing season to say the least, and it would have been very easy for them to mail it in.  However, these young men suited up and played their hearts out yesterday, and it very easily could have gone the other way.  They should be commended for the way they fought.

No, I didn't see the game, but my point still stands. I don't have the slightest doubt that the Big Blue played their hearts out, as you said, and that it very easily could've gone the other way. The final score indicates as much, and the Carthage people have admitted it as well. I not only commend the Big Blue for playing so hard, but if I was aware that the score was so close while the game was in progress I would've gone online and watched it and rooted for Millikin. Why? Because I'm an old softy, and I love a good underdog story as much as the next guy.

Nevertheless, everything I've said is true. The Millikin program is in shambles. The Big Blue are down to, what, seven players now? They're on the threshold of posting the all-time-worst record of any CCIW team in the 65-year history of the league. I've watched them play three times this year, and I have no qualms about calling them terrible.

I'll be rooting for them against Elmhurst tomorrow night. There's no way in the world that I'd wish that kind of ignominious record on anybody, so I sincerely hope that the remnants of the Millikin team, however many players are left, can muster up a win and finish with a 2-22, 1-13 record that is merely forgettable rather than infamous. Nevertheless, let's not avoid the obvious, BleedBlue4Life. Things are a mess in Decatur.

[Gregory Sager]

The tide really turned at that point, and NPU started shooting somewhat wild shots that didn't fall.

This is exactly what I've been harping upon. The Vikings lack mental toughness, and all-too-often this season when they've given up a run or the offense has bogged down for a couple of possessions they've panicked and have started chucking ridiculous 25-footers or attempted twisting, turning trick shots on the move that have little or no hope of going in. This lack of mental discipline has all-too-frequently turned temporary adversity into a losing effort; I can think of very few occasions this past season (the game at Wheaton being a notable exception) in which NPU has actually managed to shrink a big second-half deficit down to a small one rather than allow a small second-half deficit to get bigger.

[Gregory Sager]

i don't know if its possible to impose your will on a team with the size and strength of Augie, but if the NC Cardinals didn't do that last night, they did the closest thing to it. They really won every facet of the game. I do think the Vikings didn't take the Cardinals seriously enough, and thought they would be easy prey after dumping the Cards by 16 in Rock Island.
However, as I mentioned initially, NCC really controlled both the tempo and each segment of the action as evidenced by the facts that:
*NCC played at THEIR pace, making the game a defensively orientated slugfest and one which would guarantee a low scoring affair. The 50-46 final was a NCC order cooked to perfection

I can appreciate your enthusiasm, Mark, given that your Cardinals are on the threshold of something truly extraordinary. But, really, the tone of your post makes a four-point victory sound more like a forty-point victory. When I see phrases such as "imposed their will" and "won every facet of the game," I don't conjure up a mental image of a game that wasn't decided until the final possession.

And I'm sorry, but this comment:

"NCC played at THEIR pace, making the game a defensively orientated [sic] slugfest and one which would guarantee a low scoring affair. The 50-46 final was a NCC order cooked to perfection."

... is a bit silly, in that it completely ignores the other team in the equation. You've seen Grey Giovanine's teams plenty of times, Mark. You know very well that they thrive upon low-scoring games that are "defensively orientated slugfests." When Augie meets a team that wants to play that sort of game as well, Grey Giovanine is like Br'er Rabbit in the briar patch. In fact, the Rock Islanders ought to have warmup t-shirts that read, "Defensively Orientated Slugfests R Us".

Kudos to North Central for winning a game that was played in Augie's style and at Augie's pace; that's a testament to the preparation and effort of both the Cardinals players and coaching staff. But let's not ignore the obvious, which is that the game was played precisely the way that Augustana wanted it to be played. If you ask me, that makes NCC's win all the more impressive, because the Cards beat the Doggies at their own game.

[Gregory Sager]

I don't think Augie can afford to lose 3 straight and 4 out of their last 6 and expect to be assured of an NCAA bid.

Your reputation as the Lou Holtz of CCIW Chat continues unabated, augiefan. Nevertheless, I can assure you that Augustana is in like Flynn, no matter what happens. To wit, from our resident Pool C numbers-cruncher KnightSlappy:

I'm probably a bit premature on this, but this is my list of "don't even show up to your conference tournament 'cuz you're alreay in" list of cold-hard-lead-pipe locks. I'll revise in the coming days if I feel one of them wasn't cold, hard, or lead enough.

Northeast:
Williams
Middlebury
WPI
Becker
Amherst

East:
Oswego State

Atlantic:
Ramapo

Mid-Atlantic:
La Roche

South:
Virginia Wesleyan
Randolph-Macon

Great Lakes:
Wooster
Hope

Midwest:
Augustana
Concordia (Wi.)

West:
Chapman
Whitworth
St. Thomas
UW-Stevens Point
UW-River Falls

If Augustana loses on Tuesday and then loses again on Friday -- the worst-case scenario if you're Augustana -- the Rock Islanders will enter the Pool C selection process next Sunday with a 21-4 in-region record, good for an .840 in-region winning percentage. There is no way in the world that a team with an in-region winning percentage that high fails to make the D3 tournament. The bubble exists for teams that are below .750, and Augie would be almost a hundred points over where the best of the bubble teams sit.

Augie's record versus regionally-ranked teams would be almost as impressive. Even with a loss to Wesleyan tomorrow night and a loss to Wheaton on Friday night in the airplane hangar, followed by a North Central win on Saturday that would elevate the Cardinals into an appearance in the final, Double-Secret-Probation rankings that the regional committees do on Selection Sunday, Augie would still wind up with a 4-2 record against regionally-ranked opponents (remember, Augie owns wins over two teams from other conferences that've made the Midwest Region rankings thus far, Anderson and St. Norbert). If Wesleyan were to win the CCIW tourney, Augie's record vs. regionally-ranked teams would remain 3-1. If Wheaton were to win the CCIW tourney and then sneak into that final regional ranking, Augie's record against regionally-ranked teams improves to 5-2. Any way you slice it, that's a winning record for Augie against regionally-ranked opponents.

Augustana is a mortal lock for the D3 tournament.

[jtsmith231]

I don't think Augie can afford to lose 3 straight and 4 out of their last 6 and expect to be assured of an NCAA bid.

Your reputation as the Lou Holtz of CCIW Chat continues unabated, augiefan. Nevertheless, I can assure you that Augustana is in like Flynn, no matter what happens. To wit, from our resident Pool C numbers-cruncher KnightSlappy:

Greg, does that mean you can't understand a word augiefan is saying?   

[Gregory Sager]

AndOne: Father forgive me..........................GO TITANS!!!!!!


Response from the Heavens:

My son, do not ask for forgiveness, we've been waiting all along for you to finally see the light!

Your prayer wasn't in Norwegian, so how do you expect God to answer it?

According to Greg on the soccer board, it is Swedes that are the salvation of NPU.  Is the battle-royale between Swedes and Norwegians heating up again?

That's only good for men's soccer and men's golf, Chuck. North Park hasn't had a decent Swede on the basketball team since Uppsala native Henrik Gaddefors was the starting small forward on the 1986-87 national championship team. That stands to reason, though, since Swedes are crazy about soccer and golf but basketball is barely a blip on their radar. They spend their winters in terms of watching, or participating in, athletics by devoting themselves to hockey, skiing, and bandy.

As for the "battle royale between Swedes and Norwegians," in the words of one of my fellow North Park alumni who is 50% Swedish-American and 50% Norwegian-American, "Swedes and Norwegians are like identical twin sisters arguing over which one of them is prettier."

Right on, Dennis!

Jim, you're the soccer guy - sure you wanna risk pi$$ing off the Swedes?!

Jim would be the first to tell you that it's a little too late for that, Chuck.

[Gregory Sager]

It would sure be nice to see someone spell hangar correctly.

Speeling is not part of the Whaton curriculum.  Nort Park's nether.   

That would be "Weeton"

"Hanger" is correct it's what happens to Wheaton everytime they play there.
So when was NC a place of aviation?

Much like Augie's renowned medical school, a detailed discussion about which was held here prior to last season in conjunction with the enrollment of one of Augie's current roster members, NCC's Department of Aeronautical Engineering was established soon after completion of the "hangar" in 1931. The nickname "hangar" derived from the fact that part of the building was used to construct experimental aircraft frames upon which stress and metal fatigue tests were conducted. Early in the construction process, a major problem in the construction of the building was discovered in that there was no means of getting the completed airframes out of the building after they were finished. It was at that time a section of the west wall was knocked out and a huge garage door installed. After several years, a combination of NCC's desire to concentrate on liberal arts programs coupled with increased costs in maintaining the aeronautical engineering program, led NCC to sell the program to Lewis University in nearby Romeoville which, to this day, runs a well known aviation department. When the program was transferred to Lewis, the garage door opening was reduced to its present size.   

That's good stuff, Mark.

[coebball70]

Yes, Mark, I plan to attend the game in Bloomington. 

[bopol]

Just wanted to clarify the tie-breaker situation.  This is obviously messy as there's a possibility of three teams finishing 9-5 in conference.  At this point it appears as if Wheaton is locked into the three-seed regardless of the outcome in Bloomington.  The following is the word from the CCIW notes this past week:

"If Illinois Wesleyan, Wheaton and Carthage finish in a three-way tie for third
place at 9-5, Wheaton would earn the No. 3 seed based on its 3-1 composite
record against Carthage and Illinois Wesleyan during the regular season. The next
step would be to determine which team gets the No. 4 seed, Illinois Wesleyan
or Carthage. The Titans and Red Men split their season series, and under this
scenario, both teams will have finished 1-1 against first place Augustana and
second place North Central. Illinois Wesleyan finished 1-1 against the next place
team, which is Wheaton, while Carthage was 0-2 against the Thunder. This would
give Illinois Wesleyan the fourth and final seed."

The tiebreaker actually isn't that complicated.  The CCIW laid it out pretty clearly in the weekly notes and I would have to believe that they would lay it out again if they choose to publish the notes ahead of Tuesday night's game.  AO's sources are well educated.  Wheaton is locked into the 3 seed.  Wesleyan wins and they're in putting the tournament at NCC.  Augie wins then they get to host.

Actually, it is far from clean if you work from the rules.  Besides not being stated correctly, it doesn't explain well that the team that graduates from a 3-way tie gets the top available seed and then splits up the other two.  It doesn't explain which tiebreaker gets split first in the case of 2 ties (say between NC and Augustana and Wheaton and Carthage), which could have easily been messy if Augustana and NC hadn't lost to the same teams.  Because the notes explain things simply doesn't mean the rules are well written.

[bigz61550]

Very interesting about NC hangar.  The recently demolished Bradley field house was mentioned in another post as a similar venue.  The Bradley field house was actually constructed by welding two halves of an airplane hangar together so it too has an aviation background.

[AndOne]

i don't know if its possible to impose your will on a team with the size and strength of Augie, but if the NC Cardinals didn't do that last night, they did the closest thing to it. They really won every facet of the game. I do think the Vikings didn't take the Cardinals seriously enough, and thought they would be easy prey after dumping the Cards by 16 in Rock Island.
However, as I mentioned initially, NCC really controlled both the tempo and each segment of the action as evidenced by the facts that:
*NCC played at THEIR pace, making the game a defensively orientated slugfest and one which would guarantee a low scoring affair. The 50-46 final was a NCC order cooked to perfection

I can appreciate your enthusiasm, Mark, given that your Cardinals are on the threshold of something truly extraordinary. But, really, the tone of your post makes a four-point victory sound more like a forty-point victory. When I see phrases such as "imposed their will" and "won every facet of the game," I don't conjure up a mental image of a game that wasn't decided until the final possession.

And I'm sorry, but this comment:

"NCC played at THEIR pace, making the game a defensively orientated [sic] slugfest and one which would guarantee a low scoring affair. The 50-46 final was a NCC order cooked to perfection."

... is a bit silly, in that it completely ignores the other team in the equation. You've seen Grey Giovanine's teams plenty of times, Mark. You know very well that they thrive upon low-scoring games that are "defensively orientated slugfests." When Augie meets a team that wants to play that sort of game as well, Grey Giovanine is like Br'er Rabbit in the briar patch. In fact, the Rock Islanders ought to have warmup t-shirts that read, "Defensively Orientated Slugfests R Us".

Kudos to North Central for winning a game that was played in Augie's style and at Augie's pace; that's a testament to the preparation and effort of both the Cardinals players and coaching staff. But let's not ignore the obvious, which is that the game was played precisely the way that Augustana wanted it to be played. If you ask me, that makes NCC's win all the more impressive, because the Cards beat the Doggies at their own game.

I guess the NCC coaches and the majority of fans I discused the game with afterwards are silly then too, because every fan I talked to felt the pace of the game played to NCC's hand, and the coaches agreed that a major reason for the victory was the slower pace and bruising style of play.
I'm aware Augie most often also prefers this style, but its also what the Cardinals wanted in this instance. I guess I'd be comfortable saying that the game was played at a pace and in a style favored normally by Augie, but also desired by NCC on this occasion. Also, please excuse my enthusiasm, but I felt/feel a win over the #3 team in the country that spanked us by 16 the 1st time IS kind of a big deal. I also think the Cardinals DID win about every facet of the game as evidenced by the final statistics. Please notice I said NCC "won" every facet of the game. I purposely did NOT say "dominated" every facet because I don't think its possible to dominate a team as tall, talented, and tough as Augie.
I, and I'm sure the Cardinals, do appreciate your labeling the win as "impressive." We agree on that one.