MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[petemcb]

And, although this might sound bad, I'm frequently in HS gyms on Tuesday nights during basketball season. 

Don't feel guilty about it, Mark. Women's basketball is not for everybody. If I had a nickel for every time I've heard a men's basketball fan disparage the women's version of the game I'd have ... a lot of nickels. I enjoy watching CCIW women's basketball games as well as working them as a scorekeeper, but I'm not really the proselytizing type when it comes to my choices of sports fandom.

I completely agree with you that it's more of an imposition upon CCIW men's basketball coaches to recruit while playing on Tuesday nights than it is for CCIW women's basketball coaches to do so. But "imposition" is not the same thing as "impossible," and I don't think that this decision by the league warrants the label of "stupid." The bigger issue is still one of fairness. The internal institutional difficulty with having to make the Saturday/Tuesday turnaround rather than the Saturday/Wednesday turnaround is very real, and this decision balances it out.

My hope is that the schedulemaker the league is going to hire will be able to construct a men's and women's combined schedule for 2012-13 that will allow the men and women to play simultaneously on Wednesday nights by utilizing all eight CCIW gyms. It would mean that those of us who want to watch both teams from our respective schools play will be unable to do so half the time. But such is life; sometimes two steps forward requires one step backwards.

Yes Greg, it certainly would be possible to play one after the other.
BUT---The last time I saw that happen in the suburbs was....................NEVER!   
And, although this might sound bad, I'm frequently in HS gyms on Tuesday nights during basketball season. 

au contraire, mon ami

the MSL in the NW suburbs regularly schedules girl/boy doubleheaders / and alternates who gets the later game as well, so often it is the girls playing the 2nd game.

... and thus our CCIW Chat Fun Fact of the Day is that Mount Prospect has a more progressive approach to high school sports than does Naperville.

I'm waiting for fellow MSLer Pete McBride to weigh in on this now.

Confirmed.  And they've been doing that for at least four or five years.

[markerickson]

I don't know where DA Robinson and J. Gonzalez played HS ball.  Otherwise, North Park had zero players from non-magnet/testing Chicago public high schools last year.  Do I want an increase from zero?  Depends.  Aside from a handful of good schools, CPS unfortunately does not produce a plethora of focused D3 student athletes who excelled on the hardcourt.

It appears as though North Park has landed a legitimate coach.  Excellent!  I think there is talent in the cupboard and expect the team to make its first appearance in the CCIW tourney next year.  

[petemcb]

I remember there being a hint of the Wednesday to Tuesday schedule change as early as the end of last season.  I was at a game at Wheaton and on the back of their game program was listed the tentative schedule for this upcoming season.  On there, it listed the weeknight games as being on Tuesday.  I asked around and that seemed to be accurate, although tentative.  For me personally, with an ongoing Wednesday evening commitment, this is great news as a CCIW fan.  If I were a CCIW mens coach, I probably wouldn't be a fan of the change, although I get it - in the interest of fairness.

[AndOne]

1. Women's games on Wed-----> Fair?----YES. Perhaps even politically correct?
2. Men's recruiting on Tues if they play on Tues-----> Impractical----YES. Impossible-----NO, but it seems a head coach would have to have an ass't miss the game to recruit at the HS.
3. The MSL having girls/boys doubleheaders during the week-----> GOOD, BUT, thats just ONE league. As I said, I attend HS games almost every Tues, mainly in the near and far west burbs and in the SW burbs, and I've never seen a girls/boys twin bill.

4. Question to all on this subject-----While there can be no argument regarding the question of fairness, the other question that I believe merits consideration, especially in this era of financial strain not only to individuals and families, but also to colleges/universities, is who drives the car. In other words does a men's or women's game draw more fans/spectators and thus contribute more $ to the school's bank account. Where is the primary level of interest?
I'm sure there are exceptions (Millikin, IWU?), but where is the bar with regard to interest level, attendance, and thus financial contribution? Should this be a consideration? Just asking for the sake of discussion.

As Greg indicated, the best solution may well be women's/men's doubleheader on Wednesdays. Sounds great to me. However, until that happens, shouldn't papa drive the car? Answers please.

[AndOne]

Guess somebody didn't like the question.

***************************************************************************************

I understand that Ziggy Riauka, 6'8" center for a very good Downers Grove South team this season, has signed with D2 Wisconsin-Parkside. He averaged about 14 and 8 this year.

Ziggy was on the radar screen of several CCIW schools.

[ziggy]

Guess somebody didn't like the question.

***************************************************************************************

I understand that Ziggy Riauka, 6'8" center for a very good Downers Grove South team this season, has signed with D2 Wisconsin-Parkside. He averaged about 14 and 8 this year.

Ziggy was on the radar screen of several CCIW schools.

Couldn't pass up the scholly

[Gregory Sager]

I don't know where DA Robinson and J. Gonzalez played HS ball.  Otherwise, North Park had zero players from non-magnet/testing Chicago public high schools last year.

Gonzalez was from Niles North. Robinson is from Senn, but the important consideration in his case is that he was a transfer; he spent a year at UW-Eau Claire and did well there academically, so he doesn't really count. Similarly, Ed Whitaker was a Westinghouse grad who transferred into NPU from another institution of higher learning (Northern Illinois). And Ed certainly measured up in the classroom as well; in fact, he's the first player in North Park basketball history to play for the Vikings as a grad student.

NPU hasn't had a basketball player come into the program straight from a non-magnet, non-testing Chicago public high school since Avery Lawrence (Corliss) a decade ago. And, as it turned out, he couldn't cut it academically at NPU.

1. Women's games on Wed-----> Fair?----YES. Perhaps even politically correct?
2. Men's recruiting on Tues if they play on Tues-----> Impractical----YES. Impossible-----NO, but it seems a head coach would have to have an ass't miss the game to recruit at the HS.
3. The MSL having girls/boys doubleheaders during the week-----> GOOD, BUT, thats just ONE league. As I said, I attend HS games almost every Tues, mainly in the near and far west burbs and in the SW burbs, and I've never seen a girls/boys twin bill.

4. Question to all on this subject-----While there can be no argument regarding the question of fairness, the other question that I believe merits consideration, especially in this era of financial strain not only to individuals and families, but also to colleges/universities, is who drives the car. In other words does a men's or women's game draw more fans/spectators and thus contribute more $ to the school's bank account. Where is the primary level of interest?
I'm sure there are exceptions (Millikin, IWU?), but where is the bar with regard to interest level, attendance, and thus financial contribution? Should this be a consideration? Just asking for the sake of discussion.

Who drives the car? The federal government.  Mark Erickson can better address whether scheduling considerations fall within the purview of Title IX, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if there's grounds for a lawsuit based upon the fact that CCIW women's basketball teams are perpetually handcuffed to a disadvantageous schedule as compared to their male counterparts, particularly if it can be argued to have an impact upon academics.

Also, if it comes down to the men's teams having to assign an assistant coach to scout and recruit at high school games on Tuesday nights, the men's teams in this league are for the most part better equipped to handle such a task than are the women's teams, as the men's teams tend to have more assistant coaches.

As Greg indicated, the best solution may well be women's/men's doubleheader on Wednesdays. Sounds great to me.

That's not really what I was discussing in terms of the solution. As the Pantagraph article indicated, the CCIW is reluctant to go to women's/men's doubleheaders on weeknights because it would create more missed class time for both the women and the men. What the CCIW is looking into doing is setting up a new scheduling system that would start in 2012-13 that would have all eight CCIW schools host a game every Wednesday night. Four would host a women's game, four would host a men's game. Therefore, each school would have one of its teams play at home and the other play on the road on any given Wednesday evening. The only doubleheaders would be those in which a JV prelim was involved.

The CCIW is supposedly hiring someone to set this up. Heck, all Chris Martin had to do was shoot me an e-mail; I have to construct a schedule for a twenty-team church softball league every year in which there are any number of scheduling quirks in terms of some teams being able to play only on specific nights and at specific times. But I suppose that my objectivity would be open to scrutiny if I were to be entrusted by the CCIW with such a task.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Yeah, Greg, people might get suspicious when NPU has 14 home games (for EACH team)!

[Gregory Sager]

Yeah, Greg, people might get suspicious when NPU has 14 home games (for EACH team)!

What you're forgetting is that would mean that, as the scorekeeper for the NPU women and the broadcaster for the NPU men, I'd be piling a lot of chores upon my own shoulders.

No, I was thinking more along the lines of scheduling Wheaton games for two o'clock in the morning.

[hopefan]

Greg... any way you could chase down the rumor that former  North Park Asst Steve Shaeffer got the Fontbonne job?

[Titan Q]

Matt Nadelhoffer article...

http://herald-review.com/sports/college/article_e6fd6048-6b0c-11e0-b2f3-001cc4c03286.html

[Titan Q]

Greg... any way you could chase down the rumor that former  North Park Asst Steve Shaeffer got the Fontbonne job?

http://twitter.com/#!/JimmiesHoops

JimmiesHoops Matt Murken
"Congrats to my boy Steve Shafer. the new head coach at fontbonne university."

[dansand]

Congrats to Augie alum Steve Schafer on getting the Fontbonne job. Hope he can pull things together down there. Not the most stable situation. Any update on the condition of their AD?

[Just Bill]

Matt Nadelhoffer article...

http://herald-review.com/sports/college/article_e6fd6048-6b0c-11e0-b2f3-001cc4c03286.html

"First, he's familiar with the CCIW and Illinois after being an All-America player at Wheaton in the late '90s. Second, outgoing senior Kyle Taylor has helped Millikin stay relevant in the wooing game.

As soon as Marc Smith resigned in late February, Taylor immediately got involved with staying in contact with recruits. He said he's communicated with about 20 kids making sure they know Millikin is still interested. He even went on a recruiting trip to Chicago last weekend."

Is that legal? I've always thought student-athletes were not permitted to do off-campus recruiting.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Matt Nadelhoffer article...

http://herald-review.com/sports/college/article_e6fd6048-6b0c-11e0-b2f3-001cc4c03286.html

"First, he's familiar with the CCIW and Illinois after being an All-America player at Wheaton in the late '90s. Second, outgoing senior Kyle Taylor has helped Millikin stay relevant in the wooing game.

As soon as Marc Smith resigned in late February, Taylor immediately got involved with staying in contact with recruits. He said he's communicated with about 20 kids making sure they know Millikin is still interested. He even went on a recruiting trip to Chicago last weekend."

Is that legal? I've always thought student-athletes were not permitted to do off-campus recruiting.

Don't know the answer, but if his eligibility is over, would he still be a student-athlete subject to the rule?