MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

CCIW Co-Champion North Central kicked off practice last evening with 28 players in camp.
I'm anticipating 2 new faces in the Cardinals opening game starting lineup.
It will be very interesting to see how the rotation eventually shakes out as to how many bodies Coach Raridon will play and, of course, who they will be.

[AndOne]

I'm back,

I think Carthage will be a better team this year by sharing the basketball.  Some of the best teams are teams that have 4 solid 8-13 ppg guys which Carthage can certainly have.  If you have 4 or 5 guys who could all have 20 point nights on any given night, you're going to be harder to guard.  And I think Carthage appears to have that with Kelly, Cary, Pierce and Thompson based on their experience.

*Carthage may be better at sharing, but with losing a 1st team All-American I think there is a huge question as to whether they will be  better team.
*In the 4 players you cite, Kelly, Cary (if he can stay healthy), Pierce, and Thompson, CC has 4 nice players. But, where is the depth?

[iwu70]

"Game of the Year" in Bloomington this weekend.  Titans vs. North Central, kick-off at 1:30 p.m. due to IWU Homecoming activities, alumni luncheon at Shirk.  Hope all the DIII Chatsters will just get on down to Bloomington.  Why not?  Lovely day, Homecoming crowds.  Better than video streaming.  Should be a marvelous atmosphere with a huge "game of the year" Homecoming ambience/crowd.  Two great teams, a beautiful day on Tucci Stadium's near surface, etc.  I'll go with IWU 24-21, in a hard-fought, mostly defensive-oriented game.  (IWU does have video streaming now -- see details on current IWU sports website at iwu.edu -- with links to the stream this weekend for the IWU-NC game). 

On the hardwoods, I'll go with my pre-season rankings as:

1. Augie
2. IWU
3. North Central
4. Wheaton
5. Carthage
6. Elmhurst
7. North Park
8. sad Millikin

Should be an interesting season. 

IWU 70

[AndOne]

I'm back,

NCC will be good but will most likely become this years Carthage and not live up to the previous year's hype and success.  Still a top 4 team but certainly not an 11-3 team. 

And this analysis is based on exactly what factual evidence?

As to any "hype" NCC received prior to last season---If being picked to finish 6th is "hype," then NCC certainly got some.   

Your analogy comparing this year's NCC team and last year's Carthage team doesn't work because if NCC is a top 4 team, they still aren't like last year's Carthage team-----------which wasn't!        

[AndOne]

My first day of practice CCIW ranking...

1. Augustana
2. North Central
3. Wheaton
4. Illinois Wesleyan
5. Carthage
6. North Park
7. Elmhurst
8. Millikin


I found it very easy to slot Augustana 1 and North Central 2.  These teams shared the title last year at 11-3 and return a ton.

After that it was a crapshoot really.

Slight change:

1. Augie
1a. NCC

3. Wheaton
4. IWU
5. Carthage
6. North Park
7. Elmhurst
8. Milikin

Augie won't get better inside play. Just more of it.
NCC won't get better guard play. Just more of it.

[Gregory Sager]

NPU quietly and without fanfare opened practice yesterday. As the early returns are demonstrating, CCIW observers expect absolutely nothing from the Park this season, other than that it'll finish ahead of Millikin ... which is a little bit like saying, "Well, you're almost the slowest person in the family, but at least you can still outrun Grandma." That's cool. Let's see how NPU's senior-laden lineup reacts to the lack of respect coming its way. To be honest, this is a team that consists of players who will have to go out and earn that respect this year, because whatever respect they'd earned in 2009-10 was certainly squandered amid last season's disaster.

The Vikings will be scrimmaging Dominican and Rockford this season. Anyone have any other CCIW scrimmage info?

On the hardwoods, I'll go with my pre-season rankings as:

1. Augie
2. IWU
3. North Central
4. Wheaton
5. Carthage
6. Elmhurst
7. North Park
8. sad Millikin

Should be an interesting season. 

IWU 70

Wow, MS. When I saw that you didn't have Illinois Wesleyan picked for first, I almost fell out of my chair.

[bopol]

Your analogy comparing this year's NCC team and last year's Carthage team doesn't work because if NCC is a top 4 team, they still aren't like last year's Carthage team-----------which wasn't!        

Carthage finished tied for third. 

[The Thundertaker]

I'm back,

NCC will be good but will most likely become this years Carthage and not live up to the previous year's hype and success.  Still a top 4 team but certainly not an 11-3 team. 

And this analysis is based on exactly what factual evidence?

As to any "hype" NCC received prior to last season---If being picked to finish 6th is "hype," then NCC certainly got some.   

Your analogy comparing this year's NCC team and last year's Carthage team doesn't work because if NCC is a top 4 team, they still aren't like last year's Carthage team-----------which wasn't!        

The "hype" that was referred to was their 11-3 conference finish which tied for the CCIW Championship. And the analogy was more from a standpoint that they will not live up to their previous years expectations and finish tied for the conference championship again.  Meaning if they finish 4th as I think they will, they will obviously not be the 1st place team they were last year.  There was no reference in that post at all to the hype prior to last season

Opinions don't have to carry "factual evidence." NCC shocked everyone last year and I don't think they can sustain another year of that in the CCIW.  You're welcome to your own opinion, but that's how my opinion was written and thats how it should be read

[AndOne]

Your analogy comparing this year's NCC team and last year's Carthage team doesn't work because if NCC is a top 4 team, they still aren't like last year's Carthage team-----------which wasn't!        

Carthage finished tied for third.

bopol---

"Carthage finished tied for third."                   

You need to get out from under the rock a little more often. If you will click on the link to the CCIW web site below, you will have "official" confirmation of Carthage's FIFTH place finish in the conference last year.   

http://cciw.org/index.aspx?path=mbball&tab=basketball(m)

[AndOne]

I'm back,

NCC will be good but will most likely become this years Carthage and not live up to the previous year's hype and success.  Still a top 4 team but certainly not an 11-3 team. 

And this analysis is based on exactly what factual evidence?

As to any "hype" NCC received prior to last season---If being picked to finish 6th is "hype," then NCC certainly got some.   

Your analogy comparing this year's NCC team and last year's Carthage team doesn't work because if NCC is a top 4 team, they still aren't like last year's Carthage team-----------which wasn't!        

The "hype" that was referred to was their 11-3 conference finish which tied for the CCIW Championship. And the analogy was more from a standpoint that they will not live up to their previous years expectations and finish tied for the conference championship again.  Meaning if they finish 4th as I think they will, they will obviously not be the 1st place team they were last year.  There was no reference in that post at all to the hype prior to last season

Opinions don't have to carry "factual evidence." NCC shocked everyone last year and I don't think they can sustain another year of that in the CCIW.  You're welcome to your own opinion, but that's how my opinion was written and thats how it should be read

Thunder--

I think "hype" is usually something that occurs before an event. The hype that NCC rec'd last year was being picked to finish 6th in the conference. Keep in mind that many people were surprised at NCC's conference finish due to their less than stellar non-conference record to start last season. However, what many failed to realize was that their non-conference record was largely a function of the coaching staff's experimenting with different starting lineups, and the roster being so heavily populated by freshmen who needed some time playing together in order to develop the chemistry that eventually helped them develop into a cohesive unit.

Secondly, you are correct in that opinions don't have to carry factual evidence, and you are certainly entitled to yours. But, given that the Cards have a ton of talent returning with a year of experience under their belts, I think many posters would be interested to learn exactly what you are basing your opinion on, myself included.   

[Titan Q]

CCIW Co-Champion North Central kicked off practice last evening

bopol---

"Carthage finished tied for third."                   

You need to get out from under the rock a little more often. If you will click on the link to the CCIW web site below, you will have "official" confirmation of Carthage's FIFTH place finish in the conference last year.   

http://cciw.org/index.aspx?path=mbball&tab=basketball(m)

It seems like you are being selective with your use of the CCIW tie-breakers.  On one hand, you're calling North Central the co-champ, but on the other you dispute that Carthage finished tied for 3rd.  I don't think you can have it both ways.  Either...

* NCC tied for 1st & Carthage tied for 3rd

OR

* NCC finished 2nd and Carthage finished 5th


I believe this is pretty clear.  We know that teams that finish tied for 1st (like Augie and NCC last year at 11-3) are both considered to have finished 1st, regardless of how the tie-breaker (used to determine the AQ) works out.  So it would stand to reason that as you move down the standings, the same would apply.  In last year's scenario where IWU, Wheaton, and Carthage all finished 9-5, I believe all three are considered to have finished tied for 3rd...regardless of how the tie-breaker (used for conference tournament purposes) worked out.

bopol is correct - Carthage finished tied for 3rd last year.

[Gregory Sager]

I agree with you in principle regarding ties, Bob, but your facts are wrong ... and they're wrong in a way that gives what Mark is saying some credence.

It seems like you are being selective with your use of the CCIW tie-breakers.  On one hand, you're calling North Central the co-champ, but on the other you dispute that Carthage finished tied for 3rd.  I don't think you can have it both ways.  Either...

* NCC tied for 1st & Carthage tied for 3rd

OR

* NCC finished 2nd and Carthage finished 5th

Your second statement is not correct. According to the tiebreakers, NCC finished 1st and Carthage finished 5th. That's why the CCIW tourney was held in the airplane hangar in Naperville rather than at the Carver Center in Rock Island.

I agree with you 100% that tiebreakers are merely a tool used to determine seeding (based upon what for the most part are pretty arbitrary criteria), and that ties remain intact regardless of how tiebreakers are used. Indeed, this is how the league itself regards ties. Thus, Augustana and North Central were co-champions last season (and the league recognized that fact, as anyone who looks at last year's standings on www.cciw.org can see), rather than North Central being the sole champion due to the tiebreaker ... and Carthage fans thus have every right to tout their Red Men as having finished third, not fifth. Nevertheless, it was NCC that owned the first-place tiebreaker last season, not Augie.

[iwu70]

Greg, I hope your NPU team can prove us all wrong and somehow "outrun Grandma."  And, perhaps a few others.  Then again, Millikin isn't going to like being Grandma either. 

Yes, you can keep falling out of your chair.  I'm a person of tradition . . .and traditionally, the Titans have done pretty well even in so-called "re-building" years.  I have green tinted glasses, no doubt, and wear them proudly, but not without some evidence in performance in past years.  I'm just not a firm believer yet in the strength of the North Central position coming into this season.  Augie, without doubt, but re: NC I'm not so sure.  We'll see over the coming weeks how it all plays out.  I surely look forward to the season and to seeing scrimmages and actual games to give us some ideas on many of the unknowns.  IWU surely has quite a few of these unknowns and a number of starters this year who are untested in varsity play.  However, they had strong JV careers against decent competition, so I think one can be hopeful that Ron Rose and his staff will put together a pretty good team come the CCIW season.  Stay tuned.

Really looking forward to the IWU-NC game this weekend, 1:30 p.m. for Homecoming. 

IWU70

[Gregory Sager]

Greg, I hope your NPU team can prove us all wrong and somehow "outrun Grandma."  And, perhaps a few others.  Then again, Millikin isn't going to like being Grandma either.

At this point, Millikin has no choice in the matter. If the support hose fits ...

[Titan Q]

I agree with you in principle regarding ties, Bob, but your facts are wrong ... and they're wrong in a way that gives what Mark is saying some credence.

It seems like you are being selective with your use of the CCIW tie-breakers.  On one hand, you're calling North Central the co-champ, but on the other you dispute that Carthage finished tied for 3rd.  I don't think you can have it both ways.  Either...

* NCC tied for 1st & Carthage tied for 3rd

OR

* NCC finished 2nd and Carthage finished 5th

Your second statement is not correct. According to the tiebreakers, NCC finished 1st and Carthage finished 5th. That's why the CCIW tourney was held in the airplane hangar in Naperville rather than at the Carver Center in Rock Island.

I agree with you 100% that tiebreakers are merely a tool used to determine seeding (based upon what for the most part are pretty arbitrary criteria), and that ties remain intact regardless of how tiebreakers are used. Indeed, this is how the league itself regards ties. Thus, Augustana and North Central were co-champions last season (and the league recognized that fact, as anyone who looks at last year's standings on www.cciw.org can see), rather than North Central being the sole champion due to the tiebreaker ... and Carthage fans thus have every right to tout their Red Men as having finished third, not fifth. Nevertheless, it was NCC that owned the first-place tiebreaker last season, not Augie.

You are right - I forgot NCC was the #1 seed.  My main point is simply - as you agree with - Carthage finished "tied for 3rd" in 2010-11.